Am I doing alright?

[rollllon]

I've been playing at .04/.08 limit for more than 4 hours total today. In the first hour I think I got lucky or found a table with lots of bad players and I went in with 2$ and left with 10$. But after that my profit hasn't even been close so let's not count that.

Overall, not counting that 1 lucky streak I had, over 4 hours I think I made around 4$ profit, at .04/.08. What does this mean for me? Am I actually doing pretty good, and does this mean that I'll do just as good in the higher stake tables such as .25/.5 and .5/.1? Or are the players there dramatically different/better?

Also, I'd like to know what b/f means. Bet/fold? That's what I figured but.. how does that make sense? Why would you make a choice between betting and folding, if you want to fold then that means you have bad cards so why would you bet..

Also 1 more question of this scenario that's been popping up this whole day

I get dealt 66, 3 or so people call, I call. The flop is something like K 8 10. Someone bets. Do I fold? According to pot odds I would need 22:1 to continue, and obviously the pot odds are almost never that high so I've been folding those every time.

Also, I get dealt A6, 3 or so people call again, I call. The flop is Q J 8. Someone bets. Do I fold here as well? Usually, I also fold because I would need 14.3:1 to continue and pot odds are never that high on the 1st bet.

Anyways I'm surprised I actually actually made profit today, yesterday was my 1st day and it was horrible because I played too many hands and called to showdown too many times. I played a lot more tightly today, but if anyone could give me critque to improve my play i'd very much appreciate it

[Allinlife]

1st of all, welcome to the forum. you are really lucky to have found this forum so early in your poker journey [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img].

players up to 50c/1$ are fairly clueless, since all of them are pretty much playing it for recreation reasons/ none of them woudl be at 50c/1$ if they were any good. I strongly recommend you get Small Stakes Hold'em by Ed Miller, this book alone will help you become a fundamentally sound player who can beat up to 1$/2$ online, and probably 5/10$ live.

b/f means to bet, and fold to a raise, this "line" is usually taken when you expect decent amount of worse hands to call the bet, but only get raised when you are beat.

yes fold those missed pockets w/o the proper odds, how do you expect to win with 4th pair otherwise [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I can answer all of your questions for next 2 weeks or you can just do us a favour and buy Small stakes hold'em [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img] this book will teach you everything you need to know about this game to beat it.

anyways gl on your poker journey, study the game and profit!

[pzhon]

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Overall, not counting that 1 lucky streak I had, over 4 hours I think I made around 4$ profit, at .04/.08.

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That still sounds unsustainable. $4 is 50 big bets. In a very soft game, an expert might expect to win 5 BB/100 hands, less than half of the rate at which you won.

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Am I actually doing pretty good,

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It has often been said that the worst thing that can happen when you start gambling is to win. It sets your expectations too high. That said, your win rate is great over a tiny sample. It's possible that you are doing something right in addition to getting lucky. After all, you are thinking about pot odds and you came here, which puts you far ahead of the competition.

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does this mean that I'll do just as good in the higher stake tables such as .25/.5 and .5/.1? Or are the players there dramatically different/better?

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You can't expect to continue winning at this rate at your current level, and you can expect your win rate to fall (in big bets/100, not necessarily in $/100) as you move up.

People tend to forget the differences after they have moved up, but there are more decent players and fewer completely hopeless players as you move up. Fewer players will be playing every face card. You won't get paid off quite as much when you are ahead, and people will charge you more when you make a decent second-best hand.

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Also, I'd like to know what b/f means. Bet/fold? That's what I figured but.. how does that make sense? Why would you make a choice between betting and folding, if you want to fold then that means you have bad cards so why would you bet..

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As explained by the other response, bet/fold may be appropriate when you have a decent hand and want to get some value out of worse hands, but you can't beat may hands that would raise you. Another time to bet/fold is when you are bluffing, and you hope that your opponent will fold to your bet.

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I get dealt 66, 3 or so people call, I call. The flop is something like K 8 10. Someone bets. Do I fold? According to pot odds I would need 22:1 to continue, and obviously the pot odds are almost never that high so I've been folding those every time.

[/ QUOTE ]
The 22:1 seems simple, but it assumes that you are not able to win without catching a 6 on the next street, that you only need to call one bet on this street, that a 6 will win 100% of the time, and that you won't win a significant amount more after improving.

If the flop were KK5, it would be much more likely that your hand is ahead, even when someone bets. The bet could easily be someone with a 5. So, you might be able to call with the hopes that your hand will win unimproved. It is also possible that you might win without catching a 6 if the turn is checked through and you get a 6 on the river, or you are able to find a good bluff.

If you are not last to act, then you don't know that you will only need to call one bet, since a player might raise behind you. Whether you can call that raise or not, you will be worse off than if you just call one bet.

If the board is K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], and you have 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], then you don't know that a 6 will help, since someone may have a flush already, or may improve to a flush with the 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. On that board, you should discount your outs. Instead of 2 outs, you might imagine that you only have 1 out.

If you pick up a set on the turn, you will usually be able to bet or raise for value, and you might expect to get paid off and to win more than the value of the pot. This is quite significant in NL, but not as important in limit.

These are examples of some things to think about that are behind that simple 22:1 figure. Welcome to the forums.

[DiamondDog]

Welcome to the forum.

The other posters have given you a lot of good advice, but Small Stakes Hold 'Em is not a beginner's book. I believe you'd be better off reading the same author's GETTING STARTED IN HOLD 'EM (and then moving on to Small Stakes Hold 'Em)

Good Luck.

link

[basementproject]

If he knows the basics, and has the 2+2 digest as a suppliment, it'd probably be better off just going with Small Stakes Hold'em.

[MoonOrb]

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over 4 hours I think I made around 4$ profit, at .04/.08. What does this mean for me? Am I actually doing pretty good, and does this mean that I'll do just as good in the higher stake tables such as .25/.5 and .5/.1? Or are the players there dramatically different/better?


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Four or five hours of poker is just too little time to tell whether you're playing well or not. Over four or five hours you could play fantastic poker and lose money or play terrible poker and come out ahead. But I echo what other posters have said--you're on the forums and you've heard of pot odds so you're probably well ahead of a lot of the other players at the .04/.08 level.

As you move up, you will find that players are better. You by no means should expect players at any of the micro limits to be great, but you will see that players tend to show down better hands. Check out the microlimits forum here and you'll right away notice that there are some VERY knowledgeable players out there even at the tiniest limits.

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I get dealt 66, 3 or so people call, I call. The flop is something like K 8 10. Someone bets. Do I fold?

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Yes. With 3 people seeing the flop and 3 overcards, you're drawing to your 2 outs (and if 2 or more of the same suit have flopped, you could be in much worse trouble than that). You're spewing chips if you call here.

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I get dealt A6, 3 or so people call again, I call. The flop is Q J 8. Someone bets. Do I fold here as well?

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Yes, unless you have four to a flush (with your ace making the potential nut flush). In that case you call/raise. Your ace may or may not be an out, but even if it is, you don't have the odds to continue without some sort of draw besides top pair, poor kicker. It would help to know the suits of the cards.

As an aside, if your A6 isn't suited, you probably don't want to be playing it. The times that you're outkicked will cost you more than the times you make top pair and have it hold up.

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I played too many hands and called to showdown too many times.

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Realizing this is a big thing.

Getting Small Stakes Hold 'em is good advice. It's an absolute must read for anyone playing small stakes limit poker. If you can keep up on the forums--and it sounds like you can--then go out and get this book immediately.

I've been playing microlimits for only four months, but I've been a winning player I think completely because of that book.

Also, invest the $55 into pokertracker. It's a database that will keep track of your hands and tell you whether you are, in fact, playing too many hands, going to showdown too often, etc. You can download a trial version for free that will give you stats already on the first 1000 hands you've played. It's eye opening.

Also, the beginners forum is great, but there are an awful lot of NL players here. Go to the micro limit forum and check out the discussions.

Finally, when you get SSHE, pay special attention to the starting cards requirements. In a little while, you'll figure out that money is really made or lost after the flop, but playing well before the flop (and not calling bets cold with average to poor hands) will go a long way towards keeping you out of trouble while you learn. Pre-flop play is almost mechanical at the microlimit level, so it won't take you long to get a handle on it. Then you can move onto the really great stuff in SSHE and you're on your way.

Good luck.

[Boise123]

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If he knows the basics, and has the 2+2 digest as a suppliment, it'd probably be better off just going with Small Stakes Hold'em.

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I agree and would advise spending as much time on 2 plus 2 as possible.

[BlindFinder]

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I've been playing at .04/.08 limit for more than 4 hours total today. In the first hour I think I got lucky or found a table with lots of bad players and I went in with 2$ and left with 10$. But after that my profit hasn't even been close so let's not count that.
doing alrite

Overall, not counting that 1 lucky streak I had, over 4 hours I think I made around 4$ profit, at .04/.08. What does this mean for me? Am I actually doing pretty good, and does this mean that I'll do just as good in the higher stake tables such as .25/.5 and .5/.1? Or are the players there dramatically different/better?

Also, I'd like to know what b/f means. Bet/fold? That's what I figured but.. how does that make sense? Why would you make a choice between betting and folding, if you want to fold then that means you have bad cards so why would you bet..

Also 1 more question of this scenario that's been popping up this whole day

I get dealt 66, 3 or so people call, I call. The flop is something like K 8 10. Someone bets. Do I fold? According to pot odds I would need 22:1 to continue, and obviously the pot odds are almost never that high so I've been folding those every time.

Also, I get dealt A6, 3 or so people call again, I call. The flop is Q J 8. Someone bets. Do I fold here as well? Usually, I also fold because I would need 14.3:1 to continue and pot odds are never that high on the 1st bet.

Anyways I'm surprised I actually actually made profit today, yesterday was my 1st day and it was horrible because I played too many hands and called to showdown too many times. I played a lot more tightly today, but if anyone could give me critque to improve my play i'd very much appreciate it

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[rollllon]

thanks for the response everyone

I actually do have the book SSHE. I skimmed through it a couple times, and the 1st day I played I did horrible. After reading the preflop part more in depth, I realized that the problem was I was playing waaay too loose and when I started folding marginal hands, I stopped spewing chips like crazy.

So now in early position, I only play extremely good hands, and I sort of treat middle position the same way. In late position, I'm now more inclined to sometimes play low connected suited cards... am I about correct here? Usually I call with cards that aren't too high, but have potential for a flush or straight, and when the flop misses and someone bets, I just fold right away. I've been doing that a lot lately if nobody before me raised and more than 4 people are in the pot, I'm assuming this is a good strategy but please let me know if I'm wrong

I have also read some threads in the microstake forums that suggested a lot of 3 betting preflop and on the flop.. just really aggressive play style that could really back fire. I'm assuming they are doing it for "value", but how would you calculate your pot odds or pot equity preflop? I know I don't really play like that, if I hold a KQs and someone raises preflop I think I'll just call instead of reraise.

[MoonOrb]

Concerning playing low-ish suited connectors, you can definitely play them in late position for one bet, assuming there are a few limpers ahead of you already. Also, if you have a feel for the table and it's loose and passive, all the better. If your table is playing aggressively and you often have to pay two bets to see the flop or the flop is being regularly bet and raised, you might want to back off of these a bit.

When the flop comes, I generally play them the same way you do--if I have no draw, I fold to a bet. If I have a draw, I either raise or call. The bigger the pot, the more likely I am to draw, even if it's not a strong one.

With regard to 3 betting pre-flop, I'll just give my understanding of why to do it: certain hands, namely big pairs, high suited connectors, and AKo, will win more than their fair share of pots. So if you're playing ten handed and you're dealt QQ, your QQ will win more than 10% of the time. And because it wins so much more than other hands, you'll want to jam the pot. This is what I understand is meant by raising for value, or raising based on positive EV. There's no meaningful way to calculate your pot odds until after the flop. If you're interested in determining what your share of pot equity is, you can try pokerstoving some various combinations.

FWIW, all things being equal, I play KQs the same way. I raise if the pot is unraised, and I'll call 2 bets cold with it. One exception is that I might reraise someone that I know to be especially loose pre-flop. For me, it's uncommon.

I'm obviously only a beginner myself but the concepts you're talking about have worked very well for me so far.