At what point are you priced in?

[defence18]

I am constantly put in situations in .25/.50 limit where there are say 4 limpers in and I'm in the small blind with T7 off. At that point, I'm getting better than 16:1. I suspect this is an automatic call. What about when there are two limpers, and I'm getting 10:1. What is the cutoff in a multiway pot where you simply cannot fold?

[DrModern]

Your question is too general to answer. T7o is a fold in almost all these situations.

[EGO]

Think about how big the pot will be when you make the best hand at showdown, and how often you'll get there, compared to the amount of money you'll have to spend in losing efforts.

Plus, 4 limpers is 11-1, if the small blind is half of the big blind. With 2 limpers, it's 7-1.

I fold T7 here,

[Christian_Peters]

I think this is one of the most difficult Pre-flop questions.
On the one side, you sometimes are getting as much as 10 or 12-1 to play; on the other side, hands like T7o (2-gap offsuit connectors) make good hands so rarely. Even worse, hands like these put new players in very tricky spots (e.g. how much money are you going to lose when you don't know how to fold 2 pair on a T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] board to heavy action.

Completing with crap from the small blind was one of my biggest leaks for my first 4 or 5 months. I have two very solid friends who first got me into hold-em awhile ago. I asked them this question early on when we were taking a break at from B&M play. Their advice was "with 4 or more limpers, complete with any two cards." After awhile, I began to think more independently and I realized that this was terrible advice.


OP, READ THE FOLLOWING ANALYSIS AND THEN REFINE YOUR QUESTION.

http://www.pokerstove.com/analysis/unsuited.php

[marchron]

[ QUOTE ]
I am constantly put in situations in .25/.50 limit where there are say 4 limpers in and I'm in the small blind with T7 off. At that point, I'm getting better than 16:1.

[/ QUOTE ]
I suspect that your problem is not so much that you're too loose from the small blind (I'm notoriously loose from halfway in, especially against bad players), it's that your odds calculations stink.

If there are four limpers who've put in 1 SB each plus the big blind who's already in for 1 SB, then there's 5½ SB in the pot and you have to call half an SB more, giving you odds of 5½-½ or 11-1, not 16-1.

Oh, and since you're playing .25/.50, it's possible that the small blind in that game is a dime, which means there's $1.35 in the pot and you need to call 15¢, which is odds of 9-1. At best, the blind structure is 3/5, which means you're kicking 10¢ into a $1.40 pot, giving you 14-1 odds.

In your original example, I would complete this in a 1/2 blind structure if everyone who'd limped was on the loose/passive side, or if the last player to limp had a tendency to bet if everyone checks to him no matter what he holds. I'd obviously be more inclined to complete in a 2/3 or 3/5 blind structure, and more inclined to fold in a 2/5.

[Zeldark]

You should consider if you think the hand can win more than 1/Xth of the time against the current opponents' ranges and styles. There is not going to be an absolute "I need 12:1 to call with this." Though obviously some hands will always be playable, while others will never be.

Edit: Bets Postflop naturally make that slightly more cimplicated, but you get the idea.

[lautzutao]

I'm not sure where that magical cutoff is, but T7o isn't it. That hand is terrible in just about every way imaginable. If you're playing hands like this it's a huge leak in your game imo.

[defence18]

Thanks guys. I was looking for an affirmation to either fold or call. Sounds like I got what I was looking for.

[ QUOTE ]
I suspect that your problem is not so much that you're too loose from the small blind (I'm notoriously loose from halfway in, especially against bad players), it's that your odds calculations stink.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could have told you that. I was counting SB as .15, but for some reason, I think I looked at the BB being .50. Guess I wasn't paying too much attention.

[Gib]

You should fold any random offsuit junk in this spot, if there were 8 limpers I'd prolly call with any 2, but with 4 it's not worth it. Just fold & move on.

[FatedEquity]

You should make the play with the highest expectation. It's not a matter of calling because you're getting X:1 with hand that wins more often than that hot or cold. T7o is a hand that frequently flops weak middle pairs or top pair with bad kicker, setting you in an unpleasant reverse implied odds situation out of position. Next time you are considering completing a hand in the sb, strongly consider how it PLAYS postflop in your current situation in addition to the effective odds you may potentially be getting.