People and their money.

[gjpure]

Not sure if this is the right place to post this so please move if need be.

This post is about people and their money. It seems to me that very few people really have a "bankroll." For example the median salary is something like 40k across the country. I live in Detroit and in some spots it is higher, and it other spots lower.

So lets say, for example, the average person makes around $1500 every two weeks. Lets also say this same person plays poker or gamble at their local casino once a week on average. Now asumming this person is married, has kids, etc. and has an average amount of bills, etc., I would not think they would have much discretionary income for gambling. Sitting down with $300 to play 1/2 NL for example is a lot of money to this person and a percentage of what they make.

So it seems to me that the "average" player is no where near properly bankrolled and never will be unless they win a big jackpot. In addition, the "average" player is not a winning player so their win rate is pretty low. I don't know what everyone does for work that I see, but I don't believe everyone makes tons of money. Ironically, most gamble because they DONT make much money and want more. Most of the truly rich know that saving money and lowering risk is the smart move.

Now certainly there are a select few that are financially independent, retired, etc., but I would say the majority are not.

I make and good living and there is no way I can play higher that 1/2 NL live even thought I still do at times. And it REALLy hurts if I get on a lossing streak.

I just dont know how people do it. Are most people just in debt and overextending themselves because they are degenerates?

What do you people think about this and how people handle their money?

I don't think most people are very responsible or if they were the casinos wouldnt be so crowded.

[Flip-Flop]

Between 5%-10% of all poker players are winners.
It doesn`t mater how they came up with the starting BR they build it up and move up levels when appropriate, then turn pro etc etc.

Rest are losers that spend their salary and bank loans on poker. [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[SellingtheDrama]

Regarding that last sentence - lets just say these beautiful new casinos aren't being built on the backs of winners.

Most gamblers lose - they go to the casino expecting to lose and to have fun doing so. For those that find the poker room, I am more than happy to help them do just that.

[Rek]

Not quite sure of the point you are making but the vast majority of poker players are losing players who will budget and enjoy themselves with poker as a pastime.

There are a small % of winning players (10% is usually banded about but I don't know how accurate that is) and an even smaller % who will make a living out of it.

Conversely there will be a small % of players who are degenerate gamblers playing and losing far too much than they can afford.

The intellegent players are the ones who enjoy the game and decide to study and improve. This will include bankroll management.

[Albert Moulton]

I keep $5000+ in money that I've won over the last year in a players account at the card room. I buy in for either 300 (2/3 NL) or 500 (5/5 NL). My BR, therefore, is about 17 buyins at 2/3 and about 10 at 5/5. As long as I don't play too much 5/5, I'm fine for most downswings that I run into playing once or twice a week.

I don't play on line, but when I did I used to keep 15-39 buyins for whatever level I was playing, and move up or down if I was above or below that bankroll in terms of buy-ins (in other words, I'd move up and take a shot if I had 20 buy-ins at the higher level).

So, that's me.

The good regulars I play with (live, and when I was playing on line) do something similar. Many, especially the good ones, keep a bigger BR.

The regular "bad" LAGs, weak tight TAGs who play badly in big post, and loose passives seem to treat their gambling as an entertainment expense.

The very bad players show up once, lose their money, and don't come back.

Not everbody really plays to make money. Many play for fun, or the thrill, or the challenge, or the "social" aspect of talking and being friendly at the tables.

[Albert Moulton]

[ QUOTE ]
Between 5%-10% of all poker players are winners.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is right. I think most PT databases show about 40% of players with +win rates over large samples.

Not everybody that wins is a big winner. But I think more than 5%-10% of all poker players are winners.

[JKratzer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Between 5%-10% of all poker players are winners.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is right. I think most PT databases show about 40% of players with +win rates over large samples.

Not everybody that wins is a big winner. But I think more than 5%-10% of all poker players are winners.

[/ QUOTE ]

one can't draw conclusions based on pokertracker sample sizes of so few hands. i would be astounded to find out that >10% of players are long-term winners.

[Jimmy James]

Someone did a study from sharkscope data (SNG tourneys, no cash game statistics) and found that only like 5% of all players were profitable. I read an article in either Bluff magazine or Poker Pro that said it was around the same range (5-10% of all players are winners over the long term).

After looking up people that I play against day after day, I completely believe it to be true. It's pretty rare that I stumble across a non multi tabling hud bot 2+2 regular that is a winning player...

Most people just lack the skills necessary, or they don't put in the time and effort that it takes to become a winning poker player.

[Ganjasaurus Rex]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Between 5%-10% of all poker players are winners.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is right. I think most PT databases show about 40% of players with +win rates over large samples.

Not everybody that wins is a big winner. But I think more than 5%-10% of all poker players are winners.

[/ QUOTE ]

one can't draw conclusions based on pokertracker sample sizes of so few hands. i would be astounded to find out that >10% of players are long-term winners.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have over 30 million hands in PokerTracker and when i parse out those people who have less than 10k hands, i still find more than 30% are total winners. I believe 5-10% is too low a guess.

[OnYourBike]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone did a study from sharkscope data (SNG tourneys, no cash game statistics) and found that only like 5% of all players were profitable. I read an article in either Bluff magazine or Poker Pro that said it was around the same range (5-10% of all players are winners over the long term).

After looking up people that I play against day after day, I completely believe it to be true. It's pretty rare that I stumble across a non multi tabling hud bot 2+2 regular that is a winning player...

Most people just lack the skills necessary, or they don't put in the time and effort that it takes to become a winning poker player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe it's 30% for cash games like the other person in this thread said. Especially at higher limits. SNG's are a different matter. It's hard to just beat the rake, and the strategy is so simple that most people are playing optimally.