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#311
10-31-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] No he doesn't. Bonds never admitted to any such thing. The authors of the book who were given the leaked testimony even concede as much. Bonds admitted to using flaxseed oil and arthritic balm. [/ QUOTE ] He admits to using what he thought was flaxseed oil and arthritic balm. That he happened to get from a dude who went to jail for distributing steroids. Not to mention the Sheffield quotes where he says Bonds set him up to get the cream, the clear, and red beans (lol). [ QUOTE ] That you or anyone else believes that those were actually PED's does not change the fact that he didn't admit to using PED's. [/ QUOTE ] If they happened to be the cream and the clear they were most certainly PED's. [/ QUOTE ] RedBean, I assume that you not replying to this and the next post is admitting that you were at least mostly wrong? [/ QUOTE ] You have just opened a can of worms. I'm predicting a 3 round knockout. [/ QUOTE ] Nah...I think he realizes that he screwed this one up. I predict a couple of snarky comments and a [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] or two, and that will be that. 
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#312
10-31-2007, 05:13 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
RedBean, I assume that you not replying to this and the next post is admitting that you were at least mostly wrong? [/ QUOTE ] Apparently, you also assume that your belief based on conclusions drawn from circumstantial evidence somehow constitutes an admission by Bonds. Let's see if we can break this down real simple: Just because YOU think the substances were PED's, does not mean that HE admitted using PED's....because he never admitted any such thing. <u>False statement:</u> Bonds admitted using PED's. <u>True statment:</u> Bond's admitted using substances to which YOU believe based on circumstantial allegations to be PED's. See the difference? Here, just to be clear, le's walk through the logical fallacy here and see if you can identify it: 1. Bonds admitted using a substance. 2. YOU believe the substance to be PED's. 3. thus...Bonds admitted using PED's???? See the part where you make the leap from your own conclusions to asserting that it was his own admission? Oops.... <u>Short form:</u> Assumption on your part does not constitute and admission on his part. <u>FACTS</u>: 1. Barry Bonds did not admit taking PED's to the grand jury. 2. Barry Bonds has not violated the MLB Steroid Policy. Everything else is speculation, assumption, and conclusion being drawn from selectively leaked circumstantial allegations.
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#313
10-31-2007, 05:19 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
Nah...I think he realizes that he screwed this one up. I predict a couple of snarky comments and a [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] or two, and that will be that. [/ QUOTE ] Until you realize that I've been having the same discussion regarding the myth of Bonds admitting steroid use to the grand jury for about the last 4 years, with a constantly spinning turnstile of different folks coming and going who swear up and down that Bonds admitted something when he didn't, until they see the fallacy in their own logic, and then the slowly fade away and disappear, while my position remains rock solid in both consistency and logic. BTW...when your 15 minutes is up, tell Drewdevil and all your other predecessors hello for me in the green room backstage, and go ahead and send the next contestant out.
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#314
10-31-2007, 05:24 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] RedBean, I assume that you not replying to this and the next post is admitting that you were at least mostly wrong? [/ QUOTE ] Apparently, you also assume that your belief based on conclusions drawn from circumstantial evidence somehow constitutes an admission by Bonds. Let's see if we can break this down real simple: Just because YOU think the substances were PED's, does not mean that HE admitted using PED's....because he never admitted any such thing. <u>False statement:</u> Bonds admitted using PED's. <u>True statment:</u> Bond's admitted using substances to which YOU believe based on circumstantial allegations to be PED's. See the difference? Here, just to be clear, le's walk through the logical fallacy here and see if you can identify it: 1. Bonds admitted using a substance. 2. YOU believe the substance to be PED's. 3. thus...Bonds admitted using PED's???? See the part where you make the leap from your own conclusions to asserting that it was his own admission? [/ QUOTE ] Ok. So saying Bonds admitted directly to using PED's is a stretch. But saying there is a non zero chance that he used PED's by using the following info: 1) Bonds admitted to using a substance that he was not 100% sure of its ingredients. 2) people creating/distributing that substance have been linked to PED's. 3) comments by Gary Sheffield regarding Bonds steroid connections. 4) other circumstantial evidence. is a valid conclusion to draw, imo [ QUOTE ] Oops.... <u>Short form:</u> Assumption on your part does not constitute and admission on his part. <u>FACTS</u>: 1. Barry Bonds did not admit taking PED's to the grand jury. 2. Barry Bonds has not violated the MLB Steroid Policy. Everything else is speculation, assumption, and conclusion being drawn from selectively leaked circumstantial allegations. [/ QUOTE ] I have never gotten a speeding ticket or a DUI. Therefore I have never sped nor have I ever driven when I was over the limit. Right? Even though my friend was with me who saw me do both things. A cop did not, so I am good to go.
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#315
10-31-2007, 05:28 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Nah...I think he realizes that he screwed this one up. I predict a couple of snarky comments and a [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] or two, and that will be that. [/ QUOTE ] Until you realize that I've been having the same discussion regarding the myth of Bonds admitting steroid use to the grand jury for about the last 4 years, with a constantly spinning turnstile of different folks coming and going who swear up and down that Bonds admitted something when he didn't, until they see the fallacy in their own logic, and then the slowly fade away and disappear, while my position remains rock solid in both consistency and logic. BTW...when your 15 minutes is up, tell Drewdevil and all your other predecessors hello for me in the green room backstage, and go ahead and send the next contestant out. [/ QUOTE ] He did not admit directly to anything. I will give you that. I will say this again, until Bonds admits use or tests positive I dont know how anyone can be 100% that he used. But I also dont know how you can speak in definitive terms that he did not. All I want to hear you say is that there is a non zero chance that Bonds took PED's of some sort. Also, please tell me your name is based on the Mexican steroid. I dont know why I didnt catch it before a couple days ago but that is awesome.
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#316
10-31-2007, 06:09 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
Ok. So saying Bonds admitted directly to using PED's is a stretch. [/ QUOTE ] Isn't it kinda funny how you said my next post would be me admitting I was wrong....yet it ended up being you doing it in your next post. Funny how that works, huh? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] But saying there is a non zero chance that he used PED's by using the following info: <snip> is a valid conclusion to draw, imo [/ QUOTE ] Hey man, I totally agree that you are free to draw whatever opinion you like, based on whatever evidence, whether credible or not..... ....my only point was that you were asserting YOUR opinion as fact in the form of and admission on HIS part, which just isn't the case. Let's review: 1. OPINION 2. FACT See how the letters are shaped differently and the words themselves are different lengths and don't look similar? That's because they are different. I know it may be hard to believe, but your OPINION != FACT. 762 and counting.... All hail the HR King!
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#317
10-31-2007, 06:17 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
He did not admit directly to anything. I will give you that. [/ QUOTE ] You didn't "give" me that. I reached out and TOOK it. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [ QUOTE ] I will say this again, until Bonds admits use or tests positive I dont know how anyone can be 100% that he used. [/ QUOTE ] Which is entirely my point as to the burden of proof required to constitute a violation of the MLB steroid policy, as agreed between the union and management. [ QUOTE ] But I also dont know how you can speak in definitive terms that he did not. [/ QUOTE ] Show me where I have said in definitive terms that Bonds did not use PED's, and I'll give every member of this forum head while doing handstands. I've said he hasn't violated the MLB steroid policy, no more no less. [ QUOTE ] All I want to hear you say is that there is a non zero chance that Bonds took PED's of some sort. [/ QUOTE ] It's most definately possible.....hell, I've said that a million times. But unlike the court of public opinion, I believe in "innocent until proven guilty"....rather than assuming "guilt until proven innocent". The burden of proof is on the accusers, not on the accused. And so far, the accusers in both the federal courthouse and the MLB security offices have nothing in the way of proof. [ QUOTE ] Also, please tell me your name is based on the Mexican steroid. I dont know why I didnt catch it before a couple days ago but that is awesome. [/ QUOTE ] Not even close.
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#318
10-31-2007, 06:52 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
A direct quote from you:
[ QUOTE ] Aside from the fact that Barry never cheated....I bet you couldn't even name those who actually did. [/ QUOTE ] Seems pretty definitive to me. And dont give us the whole MLB policy crap. If he took PED's, he cheated. I see you did not reply to my question of whether if you speed but dont get caught did you break the law so I am assuming you agree. And that negates your no failed test argument.
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#319
10-31-2007, 06:58 PM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Also, please tell me your name is based on the Mexican steroid. I dont know why I didnt catch it before a couple days ago but that is awesome. [/ QUOTE ] Not even close. [/ QUOTE ] http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1937594 From the article: [ QUOTE ] ...I know I've seen Greg give Barry the same thing I was taking," Sheffield said. "I didn't see him taking those red beans, but I seen him taking this (clear) and this cream here." [/ QUOTE ]
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#320
11-01-2007, 10:07 AM
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Re: Bonds bitter over departure from Giants
[ QUOTE ]
A direct quote from you: [ QUOTE ] Aside from the fact that Barry never cheated....I bet you couldn't even name those who actually did. [/ QUOTE ] Seems pretty definitive to me. [/ QUOTE ] It is very definitive, considering that the rule in which you allege he broke is very, very clear in it's description, and Barry Bonds does not meet the criteria needed in order to violate that rule. [ QUOTE ] And dont give us the whole MLB policy crap. [/ QUOTE ] Oh, right...of course. You want to talk about Bonds breaking the rule, but then you don't want to talk about the actual rule itself, and how he didn't break the rule. Sweet...
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