Limping KK and comes back with a raise…re-raise or call (Low Limit)

[BKK Bang]

You limp early on with Ks. Someone puts in a 3-5 times BB raise. You are out of position and its HU. Where do you go from here? A push typically gets called at least 25% of the time regardless of what the other guy has (in low limit). I usually push because it gets sticky on the flop when an A comes and out of position. Thoughts on what’s more profitable?

[turtle82]

I dont think that a push typically gets called at least 25% of the times against a regular preflop raise, especially after you limped early, but if it does, there probably isn't a more profitable move than that.

[eMbAh]

You are not even mentioning stack sizes

[BKK Bang]

I had actually omitted some details in hopes of spawning some discussions on times when it is better either way.

Perhaps 25% is a little bit high. But if you add in a caller or two after the raise, 25% for 1 person to call might even be low. Occasionally, you get 2 callers.

I am typically talking a 7 - 9 handed game; .25/.50 game; Range of stacks can be $5 - $50.

I usually buy-in for max, so it doesnt matter to me much what the raiser has in his rack. As long as he doesn't have AA, I am fine getting my money in before the flop if he has $5 - $50. If he has a little, I think he is more inclinded to call, but if he has $50, you have a much greater chance of taking a big loss after the flop, if you just call and he hits trips, 2 pair, the case A, etc.

I ask this question because I feel like I have been getting bullied out of pots and laying down Ks too much when I have the best hand.

[Nsight7]

I wouldn't limp from EP first of all because re-raising looks really awkward against a raise from MP/LP (even at .25/.50). Playing fancy like this to any remotely savvy player will typically scream that you slow played a big pp. I would instead recommend either light-raising (like 2.5 BB) or raising extra-heavy. Either way, you set yourself up for a big score, in the former because people will easily re-raise you often and you are controlling the pot-size (and then your 4-bet doesn't look so weird) and the later because (unless they have AA) they are making a call with thin implied odds.

With respect to your specific question, however, I still don't recommend the shove unless you are playing HU against a shorty. Of course you 3-bet here, and pretty heavily, but you want to give the guy enough of a leash to hang himself on, not shut down the action. It seems like it would be pretty easy to pot-commit the raiser here with a good re-raise anyhow, and if the flop comes Ace high and your opponent open-shoves into you, you might be able to make a big laydown still. Shoving could still be good if you know your opponents too, but I somehow think you aren't maximizing your EV in this situation since I think your re-raise as opposed to shove probably gets a call much more often.

[springsteen87]

you're in a .25/.50 game, stop thinking and play like a robot. Robots don't limp EP with KK.

[GittyUP]

[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't limp from EP first of all because re-raising looks really awkward against a raise from MP/LP (even at .25/.50). Playing fancy like this to any remotely savvy player will typically scream that you slow played a big pp. I would instead recommend either light-raising (like 2.5 BB) or raising extra-heavy. Either way, you set yourself up for a big score, in the former because people will easily re-raise you often and you are controlling the pot-size (and then your 4-bet doesn't look so weird) and the later because (unless they have AA) they are making a call with thin implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

[MrRoboto313]

i wouldnt re-raise pre-flop here with KK unless its a very large raise. if some one limp-raises preflop im calling with any pocket pair 100% of the time. because your telling everyone you have a hand your not gonna be able to get away from on a low raibow flop. so i know with a pocket pair im 12% to flop a set and take your whole stack.

so if your gonna re-raise here i would say do it more in proportion to your stack size than the original bet if you have a decent sized stack.

if your short-stacked you gotta push and take all the calls

[Gonso]

I don't limp EP limping KKs, I don't think it's as profitable as a standard raise, at any stakes. EP limps are noticeable, and if the players are so bad they don't notice then why be tricky?

What will you do if 3 others get in after you limped? And if you get serious action on the flop? Also, how will you give credibility when you open raise 99 or AQ from the same position?

Anyway, if I were to find myself in this spot here (where I'd limped KK and was raised), most of the time I'd be inclined to reraise if out of position other things equal. With position, it could go either way depending on the player and other factors.

And yes, stack sizes are always relevant.