Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[clubj]

Official AP Statement:

"i HAve lookked at the hand histerys end evaryting lookz normal, case cllosd."

Rinaldogeronimo Lopezcincuentaseis Jr. , AP Customer Service Team

[pineapple888]

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I have played 15/30nl and 200/400 limit with both Doubledrag and Steamroller I was amazed and confused how both players and their manic play was consistently beating me, but also the top limit players and nl players on AP. I called Uneducated from AP to ask him if he felt any suspicion on these players ability to play so bad and win every session. He also had the same suspicion and was actaully considering writing a post on how they could be consistently winning with how horrid and wreckless their play was.
I am stuck 23k to Doubledrag, 11k to Steamroller.

I will post a few hands that really justify some of the betting and calling patterns Doubledrag made in the games i've played with him but also the games i've watched him play in. Playing online poker for 4 years now i've seen so many hands at all levels and haven't seen such perfection of calling sick hands, overbetting weak hands, and value betting hands that make you really wonder.

STAGE #753375692: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-09-04 17:44:57 (ET)
Table: ALHAMBRA (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - DOUBLEDRAG ($22373 in chips)
Seat 6 - THE GRINDER ($11554 in chips)
Seat 2 - DTON21 ($1760 in chips)
Seat 3 - PTOWNER ($3055 in chips)
THE GRINDER - Posts small blind $15
DTON21 - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PTOWNER [5d 10d]
PTOWNER - Raises $90 to $90
DOUBLEDRAG - Raises $240 to $240
THE GRINDER - Folds
DTON21 - Folds
PTOWNER - Calls $150
*** FLOP *** [6d Qc 8d]
PTOWNER - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $150
PTOWNER - All-In(Raise) $2815 to $2815
DOUBLEDRAG - Calls $2665
*** TURN *** [6d Qc 8d] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [6d Qc 8d 2s] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PTOWNER - Shows [5d 10d] (One pair, fives)
DOUBLEDRAG - Shows [Kd 3c] (king high)
PTOWNER Collects $6153 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($6155) | Rake ($2)
Board [6d Qc 8d 2s 5c]
Seat 2: DTON21 (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: PTOWNER won Total ($6153) All-In HI$6153) with One pair, fives [5d 10d - P:5d,B:5c,B:Qc,P:10d,B:8d]
Seat 5: DOUBLEDRAG (dealer) HI:lost with king high [Kd 3c - P:Kd,B:Qc,B:8d,B:6d,B:5c]
Seat 6: THE GRINDER (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS


This hand is just sick...Doubledrag supposedly made around 300k in the week or so he was playing on ap during his run and I find it mind boggling anyone can make this call. I saw him make this call 3 times. All three times his opponent was either on a flush draw or bluff and he called with ace high or king high as in the hand. What really gets me is on all 3 hands he was ahead making the call disgusting in the sense that he can only have the ability to be able to see his opponents hand.

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?

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What r u wondering about, dude?

[Chump Change]

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Only in certain sessions were DD's river agg stats infinite, but it's not possible to do everytime - like when someone shoves a straight into his flush on the river, he can only call - whether he has position or not he may still find himself only being able to call/overcall with someone behind.

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Ok, just to check then, are 20 and 16 still relatively high? Because that sounds a lot different to infinite.

Just to clarify Im totally convinced from previous evidence, just worried about putting this evidence out there. If I personally had seen this first I would of been shocked by the pf agg and the dollars won, but that doesnt have the same effect as then being smacked over the head with the infinite symbol for river AF.

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bbv is full of fish huh?

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Sigh... Whoda thunk it?



Yes people, river aggression factor of 20 is pretty godammit high.

Plus, the first PT shot adanthar posted after using N82's fixit is an interesting look at a god-mode user "running cold" for a brief stretch.

The slightly lower RAfactor (though still ludicrously high) and lower WSD is checking behind and not being able to run a bluff after seeing that his opponent had a reasonable hand that could catch a bluff, or running the failurevision bluff.


p.s. sorry for the grunch, i'm excited to see these next PT shots

[microbet]

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I have played 15/30nl and 200/400 limit with both Doubledrag and Steamroller I was amazed and confused how both players and their manic play was consistently beating me, but also the top limit players and nl players on AP. I called Uneducated from AP to ask him if he felt any suspicion on these players ability to play so bad and win every session. He also had the same suspicion and was actaully considering writing a post on how they could be consistently winning with how horrid and wreckless their play was.
I am stuck 23k to Doubledrag, 11k to Steamroller.

I will post a few hands that really justify some of the betting and calling patterns Doubledrag made in the games i've played with him but also the games i've watched him play in. Playing online poker for 4 years now i've seen so many hands at all levels and haven't seen such perfection of calling sick hands, overbetting weak hands, and value betting hands that make you really wonder.

STAGE #753375692: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $30 - 2007-09-04 17:44:57 (ET)
Table: ALHAMBRA (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - DOUBLEDRAG ($22373 in chips)
Seat 6 - THE GRINDER ($11554 in chips)
Seat 2 - DTON21 ($1760 in chips)
Seat 3 - PTOWNER ($3055 in chips)
THE GRINDER - Posts small blind $15
DTON21 - Posts big blind $30
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to PTOWNER [5d 10d]
PTOWNER - Raises $90 to $90
DOUBLEDRAG - Raises $240 to $240
THE GRINDER - Folds
DTON21 - Folds
PTOWNER - Calls $150
*** FLOP *** [6d Qc 8d]
PTOWNER - Checks
DOUBLEDRAG - Bets $150
PTOWNER - All-In(Raise) $2815 to $2815
DOUBLEDRAG - Calls $2665
*** TURN *** [6d Qc 8d] [2s]
*** RIVER *** [6d Qc 8d 2s] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
PTOWNER - Shows [5d 10d] (One pair, fives)
DOUBLEDRAG - Shows [Kd 3c] (king high)
PTOWNER Collects $6153 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($6155) | Rake ($2)
Board [6d Qc 8d 2s 5c]
Seat 2: DTON21 (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: PTOWNER won Total ($6153) All-In HI$6153) with One pair, fives [5d 10d - P:5d,B:5c,B:Qc,P:10d,B:8d]
Seat 5: DOUBLEDRAG (dealer) HI:lost with king high [Kd 3c - P:Kd,B:Qc,B:8d,B:6d,B:5c]
Seat 6: THE GRINDER (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS


This hand is just sick...Doubledrag supposedly made around 300k in the week or so he was playing on ap during his run and I find it mind boggling anyone can make this call. I saw him make this call 3 times. All three times his opponent was either on a flush draw or bluff and he called with ace high or king high as in the hand. What really gets me is on all 3 hands he was ahead making the call disgusting in the sense that he can only have the ability to be able to see his opponents hand.

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?

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What r u wondering about, dude?

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I'm wondering if they aren't just both playing so insanely that anything can be happening here.

[pineapple888]

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What r u wondering about, dude?

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I'm wondering if they aren't just both playing so insanely that anything can be happening here.

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Well, no offense to the alleged victim here, but individual hands don't mean anything. The PT stats and the analysis of extensive hand histories are what matter.

[Chump Change]

Wtf I thought adanthar had more PT shots coming? That little tease.

[Injection]

Dead on Impact, why are you posting these hands again? They've already been discussed in the other threads, and while relevant, there's no point in trying to break down every hand when the PT stats make the cheating blatantly obvious.

[apefish]

I understand why people want an analogy for non poker people to be able to relate to.
Here is why I think the baseball one doesn't work and we should keep searching.

The idea behind the analogy with baseball seems to be to draw a parallel between skill games- and skill games in which someone has an unfair competitive edge due to cheating.
The problem with the suspected accounts is that the argument we are making in order to point out how incomprehensible this play is that we are attempting to explain a level of skillfullness that can only be due to cheating.

In fact- the premise of a large part of the argument is " this is how a retard would play if he knew the hole cards". Or a nearly complete lack of skill otherwise.

If you reach the minors in baseball- you have some amount of skill.
If you reach the majors, you have a considerable amount outside of helping substances.
If we try to paint it like baseball/steroids it isn't as simple as saying "omg this guy batted .100 in the minors and is tearing it up now." That's not a valid comparison.
Steroids don't do that to your hand eye coordination, timing, and mechanics.

The may help you jump from 4 home runs a year to 25, but they cannot make you a major league phenom if you were a minor league bust as a batter.

We are trying to make the argument there is only one way this could have happened.
I don't think an analogy that draws a comparison to situation where you have to have a fair amount of skill to begin with helps us.

[DEAD ON IMPACT]

Individual hands mean nothing?

Calling 2800 into a 700 pot on the flop with king high and no draw and somehow being ahead means nothing to the case of him possibly seeing his opponents hand?

Have you played nl cash games before? He made this play 3 times, making absurd calls for 10k plus pots with ace or king high and was ahead on each call. These calls are insane and I don't see any logic behind calling unless you would know that somehow you are ahead.


Pineapple, stating that this hand doesn't give any relavency on how doudledrag could make such a horrible and shocking call and somehow be ahead shows your lack of knowledge playing nl cash games. Ask any high stakes nl cash player if this hand is outright ridiculous and suspicous.The fact that he has made this type of play several times and has been correct shows his ability to read his opponents hand.

[DEAD ON IMPACT]

Injection,
I was asked by another 2+2er to repost these hands on this thread. If you didn't want to look at the hands again simply scroll down.