The state of Notre Dame football.

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course Shemp I think the issue is what are their prospects going forward? They have talent, albeit young talent, and more coming in. So from the first three seasons, what can we tell about Weis' ability to lead the team?

The first two seasons show he can do a pretty good job with excellent talent. This year shows that he has badly misjudged how to handle a young team. Now, maybe he learns from this, and maybe that + getting a more talented, experience team means he does okay.

But my concern is this: he obviously screwed up in a big way with whatever he did with this team to wind up THIS bad (again, not so much they're losing against this schedule as looking atrocious). So when someone makes decisions that are ultimately awful, how much do I trust their decision-making abilities in the future on other issues? That's the direction I'm going in.

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This is very fair analysis. The reason I have hope with respect to your last point is that a) Weis screwed up and b) he's fully aware of the severity of his screw up, and will do everything in his power to fix it. Whether he can fix it, only time will tell. This is in contrast to his predecessor's "meh, we didn't execute...what are you gonna do?" attitude.

[shemp]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course Shemp I think the issue is what are their prospects going forward? They have talent, albeit young talent, and more coming in. So from the first three seasons, what can we tell about Weis' ability to lead the team?

The first two seasons show he can do a pretty good job with excellent talent. This year shows that he has badly misjudged how to handle a young team. Now, maybe he learns from this, and maybe that + getting a more talented, experience team means he does okay.

But my concern is this: he obviously screwed up in a big way with whatever he did with this team to wind up THIS bad (again, not so much they're losing against this schedule as looking atrocious). So when someone makes decisions that are ultimately awful, how much do I trust their decision-making abilities in the future on other issues? That's the direction I'm going in.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a handful of people who could step into that job and have all/most the answers from the outset-- only a horse's ass like CW would even pretend to-- and even the best would need to make some mistakes in order to learn from those mistakes. Then again, maybe CW has the right kind of foolishness.

Also, he's had a lot of support in the midst of adversity and that is helpful, but losing to Navy and then a half-empty stadium for Air Force may turn that around completely. On the one hand, you have to appreciate the soft skills there; on the other, eventually it will come down to performance. I think Domers are feeling a bit less invested in him, personally-- so they will be less enthusiastic about finding a scapegoat for his failures.

I'll leave it to the fans to vacillate between being unreasonably hard on their coaches and unreasonably optimistic about them-- I watch and giggle. Some day Pete Carroll will go 7-5 or lose by 4 touchdowns to UCLA or call a play that the university president's wife disagrees with and have to hear some hostile grumbling from once back-slapping alumni and administration hacks. That's that world.

Presently, I'm going to resist the urge to respond to the latest TW bait. Expecting some sort of sober reflection on the support he received, how he was evaluated, and how it contrasts with CW is too much to ask. As I've said before, if TW won more and recruited better he'd still be there-- and in any case, he got another chance to succeed/fail. I would like to hear a Domer say: "On reflection, it appears that I, too, had the irrational exuberance of a fan in my initial enthusiasm for Charlie Weis."

[Gregatron]

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This is very fair analysis. The reason I have hope with respect to your last point is that a) Weis screwed up and b) he's fully aware of the severity of his screw up, and will do everything in his power to fix it. Whether he can fix it, only time will tell. This is in contrast to his predecessor's "meh, we didn't execute...what are you gonna do?" attitude.

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You were fine until the last sentence, which sums up domer pathology nicely.

[TomCollins]

Question to Domers-

of the 119 I-A teams, about where do you think the team this year stands in relation to the others?

[domer2]

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Question to Domers-

of the 119 I-A teams, about where do you think the team this year stands in relation to the others?

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I think we would be favorites on a neutral field against around 15 of them.

If that answers your question.

[Austiger]

Notre Dame vs. Navy

I am actually sort of looking forward to this. Anyone else? How many years has it been? The line should be close to even on this game I think.

[Bigdaddydvo]

[ QUOTE ]
Notre Dame vs. Navy

I am actually sort of looking forward to this. Anyone else? How many years has it been? The line should be close to even on this game I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Typically this is the time of year for ND haters recycle variations of the "Irish capture Commander in Chief's trophy" joke. Unfortunately those folks lack even a superficial understanding of the meaning of the series.

I've always loved this game for a few reasons. First, I have my service academy connection (I'm an Army grad...father and brother attended ND). Next, the game has great historical significance. Notre Dame was on the verge of closing its doors due to financial difficulties from WWII, but The Department of the Navy greatly expanded its officer training program there...effectively enabling Notre Dame to stay open. As a gesture of thanks and respect, ND has told Navy that the series will continue uninterrupted for as long as Navy wants to play. Navy has gladly obliged each year. Though ND has the 45 game or whatever win streak, the game means much more than the outcome. It's about two top notch academic schools who share a commitment to educating and building our nation's future leaders. There is a palpable respect between the programs...you won't see either blush when minority athlete graduation figures are mentioned. And the Middies, despite sometimes obvious talent deficiencies, never put forth less than a 110% effort. This is definitely their best shot to end over four decades of Irish victories. I'm sure the Irish are firmly in their crosshairs. I actually wouldn't be too upset if Navy pulled it off (not like a loss to Navy would ruin ND's season any more)

I went to the 2005 ND/Navy game. After the game, The ND players went and stood with Navy during their alma mater. This is a huge sign of respect that us service academies typically reserve for one another. It was a small way for ND to say "Even though we just beat each other up for 60 minutes of physical football, at the end of the day, thanks for what you do for our country." An awesome sentiment which fully captured significance of this awesome series.

[Austiger]

Thanks. That's interesting stuff. I didn't know the history behind the series.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Notre Dame vs. Navy

I am actually sort of looking forward to this. Anyone else? How many years has it been? The line should be close to even on this game I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

Typically this is the time of year for ND haters recycle variations of the "Irish capture Commander in Chief's trophy" joke. Unfortunately those folks lack even a superficial understanding of the meaning of the series.

I've always loved this game for a few reasons. First, I have my service academy connection (I'm an Army grad...father and brother attended ND). Next, the game has great historical significance. Notre Dame was on the verge of closing its doors due to financial difficulties from WWII, but The Department of the Navy greatly expanded its officer training program there...effectively enabling Notre Dame to stay open. As a gesture of thanks and respect, ND has told Navy that the series will continue uninterrupted for as long as Navy wants to play. Navy has gladly obliged each year. Though ND has the 45 game or whatever win streak, the game means much more than the outcome. It's about two top notch academic schools who share a commitment to educating and building our nation's future leaders. There is a palpable respect between the programs...you won't see either blush when minority athlete graduation figures are mentioned. And the Middies, despite sometimes obvious talent deficiencies, never put forth less than a 110% effort. This is definitely their best shot to end over four decades of Irish victories. I'm sure the Irish are firmly in their crosshairs. I actually wouldn't be too upset if Navy pulled it off (not like a loss to Navy would ruin ND's season any more)

I went to the 2005 ND/Navy game. After the game, The ND players went and stood with Navy during their alma mater. This is a huge sign of respect that us service academies typically reserve for one another. It was a small way for ND to say "Even though we just beat each other up for 60 minutes of physical football, at the end of the day, thanks for what you do for our country." An awesome sentiment which fully captured significance of this awesome series.

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well that win streak is ending this year lol

we'll see if they stand with the Navy players in defeat

[bernie]

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Thanks. That's interesting stuff. I didn't know the history behind the series.

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It is interesting. Kinda cool actually.

That said, ND tends to get way too much credit when they win this game.

b