2/4 LO8 BB flop straight

[peterchi]

Hi guys. I am making it my summer project to learn LO8. I think so far I suck pretty hard. Hopefully you guys can help me change that.

Here's a hand. Both villains seem a tad loose-passive in 50ish hands.



Full Tilt Poker
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $2/$4
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
5 folds, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checks.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4SB, 4 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, CO calls, SB calls.

River: Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 3 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">CO bets</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Results:
Final pot: 9.5BB

[redmarion]

You hit the nuts on the flop. Sometimes, in Omaha, having the nut str8 on the flop is an "omen of doom." You have a faults since of security (relating back to hold'em play).

The [5d] on the turn means you still have a str8, but not the nuts. The [Qc] river neither adds nor detracts from the situation.

Being that this is limit, I think you have to pay-off the river. Many savey players will await the river and spring to life with their nut low. They'll bet and try to promote the nut-low to a scooper by stealing 1/2 the pot.

I do think the check-call is correct in your situation. I don't think you can auto-fold the second nut hand to a river bet. The purpose of the check on the river is to (a) induce a bluff, &amp; (b) prevent a raise, in case your #2 str8 is beat.

[chaos]

Three players see the turn. The SB checks and it is on you.

Who was the 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] a good card for and who was it a bad card for?

The turn card is great for the low hands. Anyone who had the nut, second-nut, or third-nut low still has their low and has picked up a wheel draw.

It is also a great card for someone who has 69 as he now has a the nut high hand.

It is a good card for anyone who has a 6 along with a 4, 7, or 8 (a 6 and a piece, we say) as he hit his gut shot draw to an 8-high, second-nut straight.

It is a good card for anyone with two diamonds as they now have a draw to a flush.

It was a bad card for the person who had the nut straight on the flop. He no longer has the nuts. That is you. You also do not have any draws to a better high hand than your straight.

It was a bad card for a player with a low using a 5. They probably were not in too good shape anyway. This is you again with the fourth-nut low. Because you have a 6, you still have the fourth-nut low and you are not likely to win low with two opponents.

So why are you betting the turn? Your hand got worse and everyone else's hand probably got better. You are playing for half the pot at best, without the nuts and without any redraws. I don't think keeping the initiative is worth betting here. You should welcome the chance to get out of this hand as cheaply as possible.

Check on the turn.

- chaos

[wiseheart]

I like the turn bet to potentially fold any flush draws. It is opponent dependent though, it is a great move if you think your opponents are on naked A2s. The river check is good I think because it can often produce a bluff or bet from a weaker hand. Id say you have the high here still most of the time, depending upon what your opponents like to play.

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]

So why are you betting the turn? Your hand got worse and everyone else's hand probably got better. You are playing for half the pot at best, without the nuts and without any redraws. I don't think keeping the initiative is worth betting here. You should welcome the chance to get out of this hand as cheaply as possible.

Check on the turn.

- chaos

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree that my equity has likely just gone down, but is check/calling really better than betting? Anyone could be on two-pair/set/flush draws that I need to charge, and I'm still in reasonable shape for half the pot...

Do you think I should just fold?

[sc000t]

I like the bet on the turn.

[chaos]

The problem is that your turn bet may get raised and that probably isn’t good for you. You do not have the nuts or a draw to it and the CO may be free rolling you. He may have just made the same straight as you with either a draw to a bigger hand or with the nut low.

Also if the CO raises your turn bet, the SB may fold when faced with calling two big bets cold. Then you will not make any additional money even when your hand does holds up.

Things are probably going to get even murkier on the river. Any 6, 9, T, or J will create new higher straight possibilities. Any diamond will create the possibility of a flush. Any 4, 5, 7, or 8 will enable a full house or quads. Of course with two opponents not all of those outs will not be covered.

So what cards leave you with the second-nut straight? Only the non-diamond A, 2, 3, Q, or K. That is only 14 cards (you hold the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]) out of 44 unseen cards.

It will be difficult to tell where you are if you get raised on the turn or the action heats up on the river. In such situations I like to get out of the hand as cheaply as possible. I prefer to bet and raise when I have the best hand or a big draw.

You have to be careful about hands in the Big Blind that seem to connect with the flop. You need to carefully evaluate the likelihood of scooping, getting half the pot or getting even less. You need to be able to get away from hands that may be strong in other games but are not good Omaha/8 hands. Hands like small and medium straights, bottom set, and bottom two pair especially on flops with 2 or 3 low cards. Sometimes these hands may even be the current nuts. You should be more inclined to dump your hand when you are only playing for half of the pot.

- chaos