Guns in America

[benfranklin]

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Sure it is. If they go through the hassle of getting an amendment, the government can do about whatever they want as long as it doesn't spark a rebellion.

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Cool just checking



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Any changes to the Constitution require ratification by three-fourths of the states. So 13 states could block it by not ratifying. Anyone who can't name 13 states that would oppose such a change isn't trying very hard.

Also, I don't remember the exact number, but something like 45 states have a specific individual right to bear arms in their state constitutions.

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When 'tyranny' comes along and legally outlaws guns, you guys think there's enough aware Americans with guns and the balls to rebel?

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When "tyranny" comes along, it won't arrive with a parade down Main Street. It will evolve through a gradual chipping away of rights. The do-gooders have been trying their best for decades to legislate how people should live their lives. The tyranny of the bureaucracy is much more likely in this country that the tyranny of a dictatorship. The danger is that people will accept the tyranny of the bureaucracy while sitting fat and happy in their homes with their guns.

[Zeno]

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90
Number of guns in the U.S. for every 100 citizens, according to the 2007 Small Arms Survey, making it the most heavily armed country in the world.

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This can be a misleading statistic. Many people (or households, a more accurate statistic to use in my opinion) own more than one gun (I have only six guns). Thus the above statistics is bias and skewed – implying Americans are 'gun nuts', and can be read (not accurately but by biased implicitly) as 90 out of 100 or 90% own guns. An absolute number is not an accurate refection of distribution.

Just the Facts Please

According to the above link 49% of households in America own a gun and 31% of American adults own at least one firearm (1994). I assume these statistics do not include illegally owned firearms.



But all this aside, why would this be startling? Guns are useful tools, and useful tools are always in demand. That demand is being met in the USA.


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i truly believe most people aren't responsible enough to own one [a gun].


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Should your specific beliefs be enacted into law? In addition, by what measure are you personally qualified to make this judgment about everyone else? Do you find individual freedoms abhorrent?

Is everyone responsible enough to go to the library and check out and read Mein Kampf without become a Jew Hater? If not, are you then the abritray authority to decide which books can and cannot be read by any one individual?

-Zeno

[terrellk11]

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edit: Canada's population is 33 million, so they'd have to possess fewer than 132,000 guns to be under 4%. They have over 4.5 million legally registered guns and probably that many more unregistered ones.

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Misplaced your decimal point there. It would be 1.3 million to be under 4%.

[raptor517]

even if guns were 'illegal' to own, there would still be millions in the street in the hands of criminals. i wouldnt really feel safe if the only ppl that had guns were the ppl trying to steal from me and or murder my family. its not practical to be rid of them legally, and in our lifetimes, we will have the right to bear arms. thats all there is to it.

[BrookTrout]

It's not the law-abiding individuals who own guns that are the problem. It is the environment of easy-to-attain guns that has been created to cater to them which has caused the gun-control problem.

When millions of guns are being sold legally in the United States, a hefty amount are going to find their way into the hands of criminals.

[HP]

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Any changes to the Constitution require ratification by three-fourths of the states. So 13 states could block it by not ratifying. Anyone who can't name 13 states that would oppose such a change isn't trying very hard.

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obv true now. not obv 50 or 100 years from now

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Also, I don't remember the exact number, but something like 45 states have a specific individual right to bear arms in their state constitutions.

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had no idea about this. I assume it could be legally changed, correct?

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When "tyranny" comes along, it won't arrive with a parade down Main Street. It will evolve through a gradual chipping away of rights. The do-gooders have been trying their best for decades to legislate how people should live their lives. The tyranny of the bureaucracy is much more likely in this country that the tyranny of a dictatorship. The danger is that people will accept the tyranny of the bureaucracy while sitting fat and happy in their homes with their guns.

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yeah I agree with this. I'd go so far as to say it's well on it's way

[Bond18]

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i truly believe most people aren't responsible enough to own one.

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what are most people responsible enough to own? a car? a knife? a credit card? a blender?

is it just americans who aren't responsible enough or the entire world?

and link to time article ifucan

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Whoa whoa, i didn't say "most people who own guns are to irresponsible to have one", i didn't call anyone out. I'm sure even the strongest pro gun supporters can agree that guns are a lot of responsibility and the ease with which people can attain them is a little disconcerting.

[Bond18]

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If you made this thread for any other reason than to settle a sidebet on O/U of replies before it gets locked, ysscky.

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I don't see why this thread deserves locking. I quoted some numbers and said the quantity of armed Americans makes me a bit uncomfortable. El D forum seems like an appropriate place to have this discussion, and i'm open minded as to why my view should be changed.

[Zeno]

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It's not the law-abiding individuals who own guns that are the problem. It is the environment of easy-to-attain guns that has been created to cater to them which has caused the gun-control problem.


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What gun-control problem? You simply state there is one. Why?

Let's take the data from the web link I posted and assume that it is more or less accurate. From that link 31% of American adults own a firearm. Now, look at it this way - 69% of American adults do not own a firearm, and that is the vast majority of adults, so why is there a "gun-control" problem?

In my opinion, there is no "gun-control problem" at all, in fact it is just the opposite; it is a travesty that more Americans do not own firearms (less than half of all households).

I propose that shooting skills, target competition, and firearm safety be a required class in all American High Schools and that responsible gun owernship is part of an individuals civil responsibility. At the end of the class everyone that passes is issued, free, one hand gun and one rifle at the school's expense (covered by issue of public bonds).

Happy shooting.

-Zeno

[shaftman11]

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Allowing gun ownership is not fatal to tyranny if the people won't rebel against you. There are a significant number of people who'd only rebel if guns were outlawed.

So it would probably be smarter for a tyranny not to outlaw guns. Then they could point at the one freedom they haven't crushed and say "See, we're not a tyranny".

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Taking the guns from the population is the first thing that tyrants and dictators do when coming to power. Once the local population loses its firearms, the tyrant can then do just about anything they please (see history for examples). Afterall, the last thing that a dictator wants to do is to have to watch his back because of an armed population. And just remember, there is no retirement program for tyrants or dictators. They either die in office or die when that government falls.