Interesting JJ hand

JDalla · #1 09-10-2007, 09:55 PM

Villian is pretty unknown. I felt that his flop check could be some stupid slowroll with an overpair or a set. Keyword "could", because I really had no idea what he had. My turn plan was 3-bet and fold to a cap, a play I'm not sure I've ever really made in a 6max game, but I just couldn't imagine him capping a hand I have more than 2 outs against in this spot.

PokerStars 10/20 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

yourface · #2 09-10-2007, 10:13 PM

why would you want to take a line that involves folding an overpair for one more bet in a big pot

b/c c/c

veganmav · #3 09-11-2007, 04:15 PM

turn 3bet is pretty bad i think.

MarkD · #4 09-11-2007, 04:25 PM

Why not simply cap it pre-flop and bet the flop? I think I would play it this way nearly 100% of the time. Only if my opponent was a 3-betting super rock would I not cap JJ here (there are times where I would not cap with AA or KK here, but not JJ).

I don't like your turn 3-bet there as played.

sonartec · #5 09-11-2007, 07:27 PM

not only did you miss value pre flop but you let the flop go check check?

I dont get it

Cap, lead, go from there.

Heisenb3rg · #6 09-11-2007, 07:47 PM

This is how I would rationlize it..

1) I cant read his hand.. He's either extremly strong or fairly weak.. he likely wants to showdown. thats all I know about his hand.

2) My hand is very strong relative to the board and most opponetns PF range

3)
If my opponent has two over cards to my JJ and he decides to check behind the river UI, hes got to see a showdown for 2BB and gets 3BB out of me when he improves.

4)If he has a strong hand he would make around the same amount of money off me as if he had fast played it (if I play it passvily here).

Allowing him to take this line effectivly minimizes his losses on A hi hands and givse him equivalent gains on his hands > yours.

Therefore, since he has a weak hand much more often than a strong hand in his preflop distribution.. Id err on the side of 3-betting so he doesnt exploit you.

Save a weaker hand like 88 for your call down...

Another way to rationalize it:
LOL @ this line being strong in most sitautions... 3-bet cause he probabily has nothing and will likely call u cause ppl cant fold.

This is a REALLY uncommon slowplay situation and a not too uncommon "im a stupid donk, messing around" situation..

vmacosta · #7 09-11-2007, 08:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]

This is a REALLY uncommon slowplay situation and a not too uncommon "im a stupid donk, messing around" situation..

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with you. A decent alternative to the dreaded 3-b/fold is to call now and bet/call good river cards.

However that doesn't mean that the hand was played well. This is an easy pf cap and bet/bet/bet. Your money goes in so much better that way and doesn't require any player-specific reads (which you obv dont have).

Heisenb3rg · #8 09-11-2007, 09:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is a REALLY uncommon slowplay situation and a not too uncommon "im a stupid donk, messing around" situation..

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with you. A decent alternative to the dreaded 3-b/fold is to call now and bet/call good river cards.

However that doesn't mean that the hand was played well. This is an easy pf cap and bet/bet/bet. Your money goes in so much better that way and doesn't require any player-specific reads (which you obv dont have).

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad u mentioned that,Thats the line I take with KK..

With JJ I think its a decent chance he has 2 overcards so I dont really care much if he folds..

JDalla · #9 09-12-2007, 02:06 AM

I usually cap the JJ preflop as well, but I like to mix it up esp. OOP (was planning flop c/r obv).

I feel like lines like this both rely on reads as well as make you harder to read, which is important in the stars 10/20 games with so many regulars.

sweetjazz · #10 09-12-2007, 03:30 AM

I think you outthought yourself in this hand, but luckily it seems, button played his hand worse than you.

Turn 3bet may have some merit based on your read of your opponent and the way the game plays, but there's really no reason you should have been in this spot to begin with.