Queens face lots of action. Turn lead/River Value Bet?

wcsherry · #1 09-13-2007, 02:35 PM

PokerStars 0.50/1.00 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 1 fold, CO calls, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets, 1 fold, UTG calls, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, CO calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG caps, CO calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (11 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO bets, Hero calls, UTG calls.

River: (14 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Reads - I don't have PT up and running on this comp, and it's a bit tough for me to pick up too many reads while 6-tabling, aside from some very basic reads I've not quite gotten any either of these guys yet, so just assume no reads for this hand.

Considering how coordinated the board was, and how likely the turn was, in retrospect I feel like this may have been a good spot to lead out. The river completes the straight draw, as well as any backdoor draw, which sort of scared me off of a possible value bet--though this may very well be a leak of mine. So how'd I do on each street?

Xylocain · #2 09-13-2007, 02:41 PM

given UTG didnt cap pf I think he is more likely to have a pp lower than yours. Lead turn and call down. Also cut the action somewhere since its easy to induce bias from the river beeing checked trough.

Fantam · #3 09-13-2007, 03:15 PM

6 Tabling ? Are you sure that is + EV for you ?

Anyway, I think that what is strange in this hand is that UTG slowed down on the turn and CO then sprang to life although no obvious draws were completed.

I suppose that UTG could have been overplaying AK on the flop. Perhaps CO made top pair on the turn and decided to bet after both you and UTG checked.

Another possibility is that CO may have been calling with a set on the flop, with the intention of raising the turn.

Well, I think that I would have raised the turn.

If 3-bet, I would have just called down. If only called, I would have led the river.

defence18 · #4 09-13-2007, 03:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I think that what is strange in this hand is that UTG slowed down on the turn and CO then sprang to life although no obvious draws were completed....Well, I think that I would have raised the turn.
If 3-bet, I would have just called down. If only called, I would have led the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I completely agree. I think it is fairly likely that CO has something like AT with the As. I don't know what to think of UTG. If he had a better pair, he certainly would have reraised pf. I don't see him going this nuts with just overs on the flop. So, JJ-99 maybe? TT has us hurting, but the rest of the hand was played pretty passively for that. Slowplay turn, then shutdown on river when flush hits? That's pretty weak. I think you're good here most of the time. With the spade draw on board, I'd rather lead the turn, but check-raising is ok here as well. I certainly would not be c/c. River is depending on the turn action.

wcsherry · #5 09-13-2007, 05:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
6 Tabling ? Are you sure that is + EV for you ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes when it's FR, probably not when it's 6 max... though I don't have quite enough hands in to tell for sure, I try to do no more than 4 for now when I'm 6-maxing.

CrMenace · #6 09-13-2007, 08:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose that UTG could have been overplaying AK on the flop. Perhaps CO made top pair on the turn and decided to bet after both you and UTG checked.

Another possibility is that CO may have been calling with a set on the flop, with the intention of raising the turn.

Well, I think that I would have raised the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

UTG's line sort of screams flush draw to me. CO could have anything -- might have a mediocre pair not wanting to give a free card, or just bet when checked to, because he thinks he's ahead or that's just what he does.

Bottom line, you should be leading the turn, but once the action played out the way it did, I like the c/r.