1010 facing turn heat - NL$50 6m

[Nemesis69]

Betting the turn is fine. You've got to protect ur hand.

[ama0330]

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Betting the turn is fine. You've got to protect ur hand.

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I said the flop

[Peter Harris]

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why did you bet the flop?

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actually, a flop check is really sexy as your equity is so hugely dependent on the next card, and checking keeps the pot small. ama, you make me swoon sometimes.

[iheartponeez]

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why did you bet the flop?

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Me no understand. We think our hand is best, yeah? We see a drawy board? Why do we check behind? (I'm sure you know...but I don't.)

And how do you continue when any 4, 8, 9, club, J, Q, K or A is a scare card? Or did I just answer my own question?

But does that mean we play check-fold on the turn to almost any card? On the river?

[Peter Harris]

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But does that mean we play check-fold on the turn to almost any card? On the river?

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check folding is impossible. We're in position. This renders a lot of your argument slightly difficult.

I think ama is on to something.

[iheartponeez]

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But does that mean we play check-fold on the turn to almost any card? On the river?

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check folding is impossible. We're in position. This renders a lot of your argument slightly difficult.

I think ama is on to something.

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Check-fold meaning we check behind/fold to pressure. Or are we checking behind/calling bets? Or are we betting when checked to, and calling bets, or what?

You don't have to pigeon-hole my question into, "Is this c/f?"

My question is: Since we have top pair on a drawy board and a majority of the deck is a scare card, and you don't want to bet the flop, (probably SINCE most turn cards are going to scare us) what is the proper play then? Are we just turtling up and getting to showdown with minimal pressure here? Do we fold to strong bets? What is the deal here?

[Profish2285]

Okay so we check turn and we do what on the 4,8,J,Q,K,A, club turn? As played I probably fold just because everytime I find myself in these spots recently against a lag I am drawing close to dead.

[Peter Harris]

By checking the flop, we keep the pot small. We have a chance to see what the turn is and how it affects our equity. We have a chance to see if villain will lead the turn or check to us.

By betting the flop, we are protecting a marginal hand, but at the cost of swelling a pot with a hand that isn't readily prepared to commit. We swell the pot at a time when we can't be sure our equity will even be present in one cards time.

Hero's bet flop/bet turn line is not optimal imo.

Bet flop/check turn/reassess [=fold to pot size donk/value bet/check behind/bet-fold to c/r] on river is ok.

But i think check flop, betting if checked to or raising a blank turn when bet into, or folding to a bet on a horrible turn card is a better line.

I reckon most people blindly bet flop and check turn, and others end up in this situation, being c/r by a player who isn not easy to read. I respect AZ and I would like to hear his thoughts, and I also respect ama's opinions and would like more elucidation from him.

Really, all this line did was bloat a pot and ended up in a nasty situation once you are checkraised on the turn by a player you can't be certain is doing it with a better hand (which I much prefer).

Also, you can't say 4, 8, J, Q, K, A and clubs are all equally "scary" cards. With position on the river and some judgement you could value bet on a red J/Q river, although checking back for SD vs a tricky player may be better.

God I hope ama and AZ come chime in. I've been away for 6 weeks and maybe I've lost the plot.

[Profish2285]

This is why I have stuff to learn I guess but I think checking the flop is terrible. Are you checking the flop with all your overpairs? I understand that our equity increases dramatically on a blank turn, I played limit for a while so I have to know this. With that said, how can you decide that a red Q/J are good cards to vb as you have no idea what villain has now as you just let him see a free turn. Im going to say some jacks and queens are in villains range so those should be scare cards to us. I am taking hero's same line because I would do the same with my sets, big draws, and other overpairs as well. Against most villains I am folding here like I said before though. If you really trust your read then go for it but I have been on the wrong end of hands for a while recently so it has made me re think things. Normally against a lagtard I am happily calling this turn.

[traz]

checking the flop or turn is SO results oriented