$10 HUSNG - KJo river decision

[F. McSimmons]

first hand w/ no reads

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Button (t1500)
Hero (t1500)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Button calls t10, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t80</font>, Button calls t60.

Flop: (t160) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t100</font>, Button calls t100.

Turn: (t360) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t160</font>, Button calls t160.

River: (t680) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets t360</font>, Hero...

[hra146]

It appears tough at first, but assuming that the average 11$ villain wont vbet any worse Js here you can safely fold. Theyre gonna show up with a 2 most of the time, sometimes even with a 9.

I generally block this river though, a raise leaves you without doubt that you should fold and youre still gonna get called by a ton of other Js. Until his river line a J is obviously the biggest part of his range. So a river block for t220 seems ideal.

edit: and I dont like your betsizes. Id bet t200 on the turn at least.

[dboy23]

I like about a halfpot river block as well for the reasons hra mentioned.

[TNixon]

I swear you guys play different opponents than I do at the low stakes. I see people bet bare aces in this spot, or even pockets higher than the bottom board pair, presumably for value.

I need to dig out some hands, to prove that we are clearly playing, on average, a completely different class of opponent for $10.

***EDIT***
Maybe it's a site difference? hra, where do you play? I'm pretty sure dboy plays stars, and I've heard full tilt is way fishier than stars at every level.

***EDIT 2***
Hell, I sometimes bet a pocket higher than the bottom board pair here, expecting many aces and kings to call.

We can't possibly be playing against the same crowd, because from what I've seen, this assumption:

[ QUOTE ]
but assuming that the average 11$ villain wont vbet any worse Js here you can safely fold

[/ QUOTE ]

Can't be applied to the average $10 villan at all. In fact, I'd guess you can only apply assumptions like that to 10 or 20% of the players at the lower levels, at least on FT.

*EDIT 3*

I do agree that betting is better than checking, though. But when I'm betting there, it's only partially to block. Like I said, I fully expect to get called by a fair number of ace and king highs here, and even the odd queen.

[xSCWx]

I don't really go below $22, but even at those stakes I'm calling this river every time and winning at least half against 2 overs or a mid PP.

[TNixon]

You play full tilt xSCWx?

If there really is that much of a difference between the two sites, maybe it's time to pull some money over to stars, because right now the high-variance game at FT is beating the living [censored] out of me, and I think I do tend to do better against players who you can at least say are somewhat sane. :/

Got a good start to comeback #5 tonight, we'll see if this one lasts.

[xSCWx]

I play on FT, it seems that most of the players at $33 and below are either psycho aggressive or psycho passive. The aggressive ones I generally let stack themselves but some games you are just destined to get run over by variance. The passive ones usually give up tons of pots to BLATANT bluffs which makes for an easy win.

The passive players tend to be a joke to run over because a board can be:

[J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]]

We check.

[J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] [J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]

I bet 3/5 pot they fold ace high.

[phatjeffrey]

Sorry for going a little OT:

I feel im really more comfortable with the Stars Turbo HU SNG structure.

with 75bb starting stacks on stars and low blinds levels in the 2-3 early stages, i can almost find out everything i need to know about my opponent without putting a big part of my stack at risk.

After 15 mins the stacks become 15 BBs at both sites, and the blind/stack structure is also similar.

What im trying to say is that information at stars is cheaper, BAD players at the 11's and maybe 22's willing to stack of with whole 75bb and 65bb stacks with TPWK give the good player that avoids marginal situations early on a bigger edge at stars than it does on ftp.

Id really like to see a detailed discussion, from someone whos given it more thought or plays better than i do,
on the difference in structures between turbo HU SNGs on stars and ftp and what a player should do to adjust to that difference and make the most out of it.

[xSCWx]

I'm waiting for Stars to cancel a check that never got to me, once I have some money back on there I'll give it a try. I don't have much experience on Stars except in 6-max cash games, and I suck big time at those.

[TNixon]

hra146, do you play on stars? I'm really curious to see if there's really a big difference in the average player between the two sites.