25NL ATo - I never know what to do here

[threads13]

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I agree with everything everyone is saying, but what if AT were sooted?

Would you overlimp then, what about from later pos? How would you respond to the raise? What about lower ace-rag suited.

In NLTAP Sklanksy seems to put a good amount of value on the suitedness of ace hands, does this agree with your experience?

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I will play ATs in EP but not ATo.

[AlexB182]

I read somewhere that the value of suitedness is just like 3 % higher than of the same offsuit hand. Yet, I agree that ATs has of course more value than ATos.
However, I think that limping ATs or overlimping with it is only a good line at a passive table, I don't think either ATos or ATs can stand a raise being out of position and in the worst case even HU.
The later your position, the more I think overlimping ATs is OK, but I would mostly prefer raising it (at least in CO and Button) against only one or two limpers.

[CazicT]

[ QUOTE ]
I read somewhere that the value of suitedness is just like 3 % higher than of the same offsuit hand. Yet, I agree that ATs has of course more value than ATos.
However, I think that limping ATs or overlimping with it is only a good line at a passive table, I don't think either ATos or ATs can stand a raise being out of position and in the worst case even HU.
The later your position, the more I think overlimping ATs is OK, but I would mostly prefer raising it (at least in CO and Button) against only one or two limpers.

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That 3 % is in all-in situations I believe. With money behind I would say the value is much higher than this, I guess alot depends on your opponents of course.

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I read somewhere that the value of suitedness is just like 3 % higher than of the same offsuit hand. Yet, I agree that ATs has of course more value than ATos.
However, I think that limping ATs or overlimping with it is only a good line at a passive table, I don't think either ATos or ATs can stand a raise being out of position and in the worst case even HU.
The later your position, the more I think overlimping ATs is OK, but I would mostly prefer raising it (at least in CO and Button) against only one or two limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

That 3 % is in all-in situations I believe. With money behind I would say the value is much higher than this, I guess alot depends on your opponents of course.

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Agreed. You are speaking of hot-cold equity. This can be extremely misleading when it comes to hands like this. The value of hand doesn't come from how often it wins a showdown when the stacks are deep.

[BobbyArmani]

Here in LV A10o is referred to as the cabdriver hand.

If you don't stop playing it, you'll end up driving a cab.

[Landlord79]

[ QUOTE ]
fold pre flop. that will save you the trouble.

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QFT

[umaine89]

[ QUOTE ]
fold pre flop. that will save you the trouble.

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I agree. Folding ATo in EP is the best play. Then folding to the raise is the best play.

[MadMike]

Fold preflop... either initially or after the raise behind.
Flop, you need to call the extra $2.

ATo, KQo, AJo are all unplayable in EP except in special circumstances/table dynamics- and under those circumstances you raise them.

ATs,AJs,KQs are more interesting, but default is to fold those in EP unless I'm at a really passive table where I can limp without fear of a raise behind (table would have to be something like 30/2 average) or a really tight one when I'd openraise to LAG it up.

This was one of the hard adjustments for me going from Limit to NL. Pretty suited broadway hands like KJs,AJs,KQs,ATs have lots more value when the reverse implied odds are limited like in limit, the price for a draw is likely to be good, and the penalty for domination at showdown is just a couple bets and not a third of your stack or worse...

[BJJIII]

Fold PF