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#121
07-20-2007, 04:23 AM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
but if you just call with 33, then the guy in the bb almost always calls with hands such as AQ, KQs, etc, and then you just check down anything but a set and if the big blind bets you just fold post flop. Thoughts anyone?
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#122
07-20-2007, 10:22 AM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
[ QUOTE ]
Nice work Slim: I'm summarising this as; Krav's shove was a bit light, but correct. Rain's overshove was correct and Rahme's fold was ... correct. [/ QUOTE ] No, Kravs shove was definitely correct (KQs afair) while Rain's overshove was very light.
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#124
07-20-2007, 11:29 AM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
[ QUOTE ]
but if you just call with 33, then the guy in the bb almost always calls with hands such as AQ, KQs, etc, and then you just check down anything but a set and if the big blind bets you just fold post flop. Thoughts anyone? [/ QUOTE ] 33 plays poorly 3-way, why would you want to invite somebody else in? To try to knock out a player? Don't like it, with the top-heavy payout structure and getting Alex K. healthy immediately if he does win the 3-way pot. Plus the BB might think your call is weak and shove over it, with hands that he just would have folded if Hero had shoved (e.g., AQ), and now you have to fold and have simply spewed b/c BB would have called Alex K. with those hands anyway.
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#125
07-20-2007, 12:40 PM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
[ QUOTE ]
but if you just call with 33, then the guy in the bb almost always calls with hands such as AQ, KQs, etc, and then you just check down anything but a set and if the big blind bets you just fold post flop. Thoughts anyone? [/ QUOTE ] With ultra-nit Rahme in the BB, this probably works. It leaves Khan with a pot-sized bet behind and I doubt Rahme will bet postflop without the nuts.
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#126
07-20-2007, 01:14 PM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
It doesn't seem to make a huge difference calling there with a nit in the BB who will rarely call or overshove. The problem is if Rahme has exactly AK and overshoves, we fold the best hand.
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#127
07-20-2007, 01:28 PM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't seem to make a huge difference calling there with a nit in the BB who will rarely call or overshove. The problem is if Rahme has exactly AK and overshoves, we fold the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] Rahme shoving is not a "problem." Rahme's shoving range from the BB there if Khan calls is extremely tightand if he does push, I know Kravchenko is about a 3:1 underdog and 33 is at least 2:1. One of the most common mistakes people make playing tournament poker is to call a big bet because not every hand in the opponent's range beats yours. This "you might fold the best hand if he has exactly *blank*" is fish-talk.
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#128
07-20-2007, 03:40 PM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It doesn't seem to make a huge difference calling there with a nit in the BB who will rarely call or overshove. The problem is if Rahme has exactly AK and overshoves, we fold the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] Rahme shoving is not a "problem." Rahme's shoving range from the BB there if Khan calls is extremely tightand if he does push, I know Kravchenko is about a 3:1 underdog and 33 is at least 2:1. One of the most common mistakes people make playing tournament poker is to call a big bet because not every hand in the opponent's range beats yours. This "you might fold the best hand if he has exactly *blank*" is fish-talk. [/ QUOTE ] What's the reason for calling other than to fold to a push? We can't play for set value here and we're OOP if called.
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#129
07-20-2007, 04:51 PM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] It doesn't seem to make a huge difference calling there with a nit in the BB who will rarely call or overshove. The problem is if Rahme has exactly AK and overshoves, we fold the best hand. [/ QUOTE ] Rahme shoving is not a "problem." Rahme's shoving range from the BB there if Khan calls is extremely tightand if he does push, I know Kravchenko is about a 3:1 underdog and 33 is at least 2:1. One of the most common mistakes people make playing tournament poker is to call a big bet because not every hand in the opponent's range beats yours. This "you might fold the best hand if he has exactly *blank*" is fish-talk. [/ QUOTE ] What's the reason for calling other than to fold to a push? We can't play for set value here and we're OOP if called. [/ QUOTE ] Kravchenko loses a lot of pot equity if BB overcalls with any live cards. Every other player at the table gets about $125,000 in additional equity if Kravchenko busts. Rahme in with live cards makes it about 1/2-1/3 = 17% more likely he busts. If anything Rahme won't bet enough postflop so Khan never has to worry about folding the best hand.
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#130
07-20-2007, 06:46 PM
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Re: Rainkhan and the 33 versus Alex Kravchenko
Should Khan just call with 33?
Assuming: <ul type="square">[*]Kravchenko is pushing {22+,A2s+,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,A5o+,KTo+,QJo}[*]Rahme will call with {TT+,AQs+,AKo} if Khan folds[*]Rahme will overcall with {66+,AJs+,AQo+,KQs} (7.67%) if Khan flat calls[*]There is no further action in the hand[/list] This gives three-way pot equities of... Kravchenko: 0.30710 Khan: 0.23979 Rahme: 0.45311 EV_call = 2488.124 From before, Khan folding was worth 2460.898. Khan pushing and never getting called by Rahme was worth 2468.665. call>push>fold EDIT: If Rahme overcalls Khan's push with {QQ+}, pushing is worth a little less: 2457.730, making it definitely call>>push/fold.
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