No love for horseracing?

brianpower · #1 10-26-2007, 07:24 AM

Im surprised horseracing isn't popular on this forum. In the UK/Ireland theres never been a better time to back horses than right now.

The fierce compitition between the bookmakers over here has lead to "early prices" being available on every race. Most races have overrounds of less than 5%, sometimes much less.Add the exchanges to the mix, and a random selection is almost neutral EV.The days of having to combat a 17% overround are long gone.

So why no love for one of the greatest gambling mediums?

Edit: Doh! just noticed the Breeders Cup thread. But why no day-to-day love?

cefis21 · #2 10-26-2007, 08:47 AM

The reason that there isnt that great of love for Horseracing is that it is EXTREMELY difficult to win at. The majority of the people at the track are Mom and Dad $2 bettors just looking for something to do. Lose $30 and go home. There is a stat that 20% of the people at the track create 80% of the handle.
I myself use to go to the track everyday from the mid eighties thru the mid nineties. I loved Horseracing, hence my user I.D. (Dont know if you remember the Woody Stephen's horse Cefis) and had some great times. But all those years I can say I did not win. Chasing Pick 3's, trifactas and pick 6 carryovers got tragic. Then I found Poker.
I've always been great at math and quickly found my nitch in life playing Poker. Needless to say I gave up Horseracing for I found maching wits with fellow humans was alot more profitable then betting a stupid 4 legged animal. Anyway, with Poker I was able to pay off my mortgage at age 41 and raise a family of 4.
Well after appox 10 years away from Horseracing I've deceided to get back in again this August. Was doing great, then not so great. Give the BC a whirl to see if I'll stick with it or not. If Lear's wins the Distaff I'll for sure stick with it.

brianpower · #3 10-26-2007, 09:01 AM

I understand waht you're saying, and realise that track betting in teh US is a waste of time unless you are dedicating your life to it. And even then you're doing well to grind out a profit.

But thats because of the brutal house take, what is it 17-20% from the win pool? Right now in Europe we're basically betting into a pool where the house take is 2-3%.

What sort of betting options have you guys got in the US, can you place bets on Betfair, do Bookmakers create their own books and allow you to "take" a price?

And I also understand why you're giving poker so much love, your story sounds similar to mine. Poker was the first betting medium that I made a consistant profit from, it was wonderfull to have my (long-term) results reflect nothing but my own desicsions and not have to worry about the "insiders" f*cking with the game.

But now that I have a decent bankroll and other resources, Im making more money betting on horses than I am at my 9-5, poker is still a (thankfully profitable) hobby.

btw,c ongrats on the house and 4 kids. nh [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

cefis21 · #4 10-26-2007, 09:16 AM

17%-20% we wish. More near 30%. Honest to God the take out is only 2-3%? Is there no taxes taken out?
As far as betting Betfair, U.S. residents not allowed. I dont know about Bookmakers. But I know of no betting in the U.S. or online that will give a "take" price. Gambling is very illegal here in the U.S. and where it is allowed, taxes MUST be taken.
I do my horserace betting at Bodog. They just use the track payouts. But Bodog does give a little bonus for money wagered and I dont have to drive an hour to watch and wager. I can do it from my house.
If the takeout was 2-3% horseracing here would be massive. But that isn't going happen.
You non-American gamblers have no clue how great you have it.

Salmon · #5 10-26-2007, 09:20 AM

Stanford Wong provided a pretty sobering analysis of horse racing with the 20% track take in "Betting Cheap Claimers"; he analyzed how much better you had to be than the average horse player out there in order to make a profit.

It was pretty sobering.

When you compare the 20% track take to the ~5% vig in 'capping football or whatever, there's no competition.

brianpower · #6 10-26-2007, 09:43 AM

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More near 30%

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Thats a [censored] disgrace, and you pay taxes on your profit, jezz, no wonder you're sick of it.

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Honest to God the take out is only 2-3%? Is there no taxes taken out?

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Basiclly yeah, and in ireland (i think its the samein the UK) income from gambling is not taxable.

Have a look at this website..
http://odds.bestbetting.com/horse-racing...rs'-cup-classic

Its shows the prices on offer from various Ire/UK bookmakers for the Breeders Cup. Notice the "best price percentage" beneath the grid, at the mo' its 105% excluding the exchanges. 102% if you include them.

Races with a 98% book are not rare.

[ QUOTE ]
You non-American gamblers have no clue how great you have it.

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Well I do now. Sweet [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

brianpower · #7 10-26-2007, 10:01 AM

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Gambling is very illegal here in the U.S. and where it is allowed, taxes MUST be taken.

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I keep forgetting about that puritanical thing you guys got goin on over there.

In Ireland half the government takes a week of to go to the Cheltenham Racing Festival in the UK. And they have a "hospitality tent" at the major Irish racing festival where they all get drunk and gamble their brains out.

land of the free baby [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

NajdorfDefense · #8 10-26-2007, 04:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Gambling is very illegal here in the U.S. and where it is allowed, taxes MUST be taken.

[/ QUOTE ]

I keep forgetting about that puritanical thing you guys got goin on over there.

In Ireland half the government takes a week of to go to the Cheltenham Racing Festival in the UK. And they have a "hospitality tent" at the major Irish racing festival where they all get drunk and gamble their brains out.

land of the free baby [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Horse racing live, online, and over the phone is totally legal here. these complaints make no sense. I can bet the Belmont/Aqueduct from my cell phone, legally, with NYRA and the authorities in full support.

NajdorfDefense · #9 10-26-2007, 04:09 PM

NYC OTB has a live setup in TimesSq to get more bettors. LOL at horse betting not being legal online [or live].

cefis21 · #10 10-26-2007, 06:29 PM

Naj, yes of course horseracing and betting is legal. But after all the money wagered, nearly 30% is taken out in taxes. Then they pay out to the winners. God forbid you hit something big, then the tax man comes out again. Lotteries take out over 50%.
I thought that the early parts of this thread was explaining that.