Dealing with abusive player from the floor/dealer perspective.

[bav]

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(one example might be if you see the dealer screw up a side pot and no player at the table notices).

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I would say this isn't important enough for the spectator to speak up just for the simple fact that if nobody at the table "notices" there is a good chance that the spectator didn't see it as good as the people actually seated at the table.

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Perhaps. I was saved once by a good samaritan on the rail in a Sahara tourney. River is dealt and we turn our two crappy no-pair cards over. I say "split". Dealer says "no--kicker plays." I look again and say "huh? split!" Dealer says "IT IS NOT! ACE KING QUEEN TEN EIGHT SEVEN, his seven plays!" I figure I'm just tired and not seeing straight and don't reargue and the dealer pushes the pot. Railbird then says "WOA! Dealer! You counted out 6 cards when you did that... ace king queen ten eight... that's five cards and the seven doesn't play... split pot." Thank you railbird.

But yeah, you need to be REALLY sure of what you speak if you're going to correct the dealer from the rail.

[Rottersod]

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(one example might be if you see the dealer screw up a side pot and no player at the table notices).

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I would say this isn't important enough for the spectator to speak up just for the simple fact that if nobody at the table "notices" there is a good chance that the spectator didn't see it as good as the people actually seated at the table.

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Perhaps. I was saved once by a good samaritan on the rail in a Sahara tourney. River is dealt and we turn our two crappy no-pair cards over. I say "split". Dealer says "no--kicker plays." I look again and say "huh? split!" Dealer says "IT IS NOT! ACE KING QUEEN TEN EIGHT SEVEN, his seven plays!" I figure I'm just tired and not seeing straight and don't reargue and the dealer pushes the pot. Railbird then says "WOA! Dealer! You counted out 6 cards when you did that... ace king queen ten eight... that's five cards and the seven doesn't play... split pot." Thank you railbird.

But yeah, you need to be REALLY sure of what you speak if you're going to correct the dealer from the rail.

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Great story.

[AngusThermopyle]

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I would say this isn't important enough for the spectator to speak up just for the simple fact that if nobody at the table "notices" there is a good chance that the spectator didn't see it as good as the people actually seated at the table.



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By the same logic, if someone at the table thinks there is an error, but nobody else says anything, he should keep quiet because 10 others at the table can't possibly be wrong or silently wondering if the dealer really just messed up royally.

Sorry. If I am sure there is a mistake, I speak up, even from the rail.

Oh, "important enough". I like it when casino staff think a $20 side pot isn't "important". Just fail to tip them $1 once.

[RR]

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I would say this isn't important enough for the spectator to speak up just for the simple fact that if nobody at the table "notices" there is a good chance that the spectator didn't see it as good as the people actually seated at the table.



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By the same logic, if someone at the table thinks there is an error, but nobody else says anything, he should keep quiet because 10 others at the table can't possibly be wrong or silently wondering if the dealer really just messed up royally.

Sorry. If I am sure there is a mistake, I speak up, even from the rail.

Oh, "important enough". I like it when casino staff think a $20 side pot isn't "important". Just fail to tip them $1 once.

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I have never seen a spectator correct a dealer fromt he rail. I have seen many attempts at correcting the dealer when the guy on the rail had no clue about what was happening on the table. I have seen guys on the rail convince some of the players the dealer just made a mistake when the dealer did everything exactly right. Many years ago I had a discussion with someone about speaking up from the rail; I saw nothing wrong with it. He told me to go ahead and speak up if I was sure I was right, but to understand I wouldn't be welcome to watch the game anymore if I was wrong.

[kyleb]

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I'm on the list and being bothered by his talk, so I made a comment that had nothing to do with the game at hand. What, just because the idiot's in a game I can't talk to him? Nice logic.

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No floor anywhere is going to permit a person on the rail to annoy a player in the game. You are a spectator, not a participant. Spectators should be seen and not heard unless they have something seriously important to add (one example might be if you see the dealer screw up a side pot and no player at the table notices). Shut yer yap if you ain't at the table. I'm a bit boggled that you think you have the right to stand on the sidelines and heckle.

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Please. He's annoying me directly.

I forgot that this forum was the nit forum.

[kyleb]

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He told me to go ahead and speak up if I was sure I was right, but to understand I wouldn't be welcome to watch the game anymore if I was wrong.

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Yeah, this is the same ruling I've gotten from several floor personnel. How hard is this to understand, bernie, et. al?

[Dids]

This thread is getting off topic from my original question.

FWIW I knew Kyle was wrong, but I was willing to leverage his wrongness into getting the other guy to shut up.

I'm just wondering what the usual standard for non-profane abuse is. I mean, were I a floor, I'd try and shut the guy down pdq, but then, I'm not a floor and don't have to deal with the realities of a poker room and the freaks that exist therein.

[DeuceKicker]

I agree with Bernie & The Boys.

Maybe it's the just affected tone of these kinds of trip reports, but while they may be entertaining to read, I imaging that when a group of 2+2ers storms into a live casino to Take Over The Poker World, the experience is less than fulfilling for the poor schleps at the table.

[RR]

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I'm just wondering what the usual standard for non-profane abuse is. I mean, were I a floor, I'd try and shut the guy down pdq, but then, I'm not a floor and don't have to deal with the realities of a poker room and the freaks that exist therein.

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I have always enforced a zero abuse policy.

[kyleb]

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I imaging that when a group of 2+2ers storms into a live casino to Take Over The Poker World, the experience is less than fulfilling for the poor schleps at the table.

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Everyone besides me is passive-aggressive and therefore no one really minds. I'm pretty much the only one that doesn't put up with [censored]. If it comes across as being a dick, that's fine. That's how I do business, and all of my clients and partners appreciate the upfront honesty.

As for the game, we're playing 4/8. Most of us play much, much higher, so we're absolutely screwing around for the majority of the time. Therefore, we're giving the locals tons of undue action and we tip the dealers/floor very well. I'm good friends with most of the dealers and the floor at Parker's, to boot.