An EDF Introspective: S.R.E.A.M.

[nath]

I mean, I like sex and I have a sex drive, because I like being with women. Like, for whatever reason, I find being in love to be about the greatest thing there is, and a lot of the stuff on the way to that is really damn good, too. Even when I'm not in love with a girl, I still like being with the ones i'm attracted to. That's a hell of a lot of fun.

And you can say that, well, I'm genetically wired that way, to think I fall in love, and think I enjoy the company of women, just to get me to procreate, because that's how we evolved, but, I mean, at a certain level, what's the difference?

[ElSapo]

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But these are not necessarily blanket bad reasons. Lots of people might find these perfectly acceptable under some circumstances.

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GAH. THIS IS THE EXACT POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE. Why does our society think this line of rationale is acceptable? It is my contention that having sex for these "bad reasons" is detrimental to one's overall happiness and well-being. Seeking validation from someone who knows very little about you can wreak havoc on one's overall psyche.

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What we're really talking about here is probably not sex, but self awareness. Why we do -many- of the things we do, not just why we screw who we do.

Which doesn't really make your statement wrong, only incomplete, I think. Isn't all of this the basis for therapy in general? Working out the underlying reasons we make any of the choices we do?

I've always believed that as long as you understood your choices - where they come from, their implications on yourself and others - as long as we're honest with ourselves, the idea of "bad choices" becomes a little, well, less so.

Granted, that's a high bar. But real self examination and honesty are good goals to set, in all endeavors and not just sex.

The question, I suppose, is whether (assuming some of this is correct) recognizing a supposed "bad reason" makes it less bad. Is it still a crappy idea to do what you're going to do, or does it fundamentally change if you're no longer pulling the wool over your own eyes?

I get the sense that your initial post was made with a specific theory in mind - something close to the post I made earlier, maybe. And while the reason I gave is probably true for some people (and hell, might even be true for me), it's only one reason.

[nath]

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What we're really talking about here is probably not sex, but self awareness. Why we do -many- of the things we do, not just why we screw who we do.

Which doesn't really make your statement wrong, only incomplete, I think. Isn't all of this the basis for therapy in general? Working out the underlying reasons we make any of the choices we do?

I've always believed that as long as you understood your choices - where they come from, their implications on yourself and others - as long as we're honest with ourselves, the idea of "bad choices" becomes a little, well, less so.

Granted, that's a high bar. But real self examination and honesty are good goals to set, in all endeavors and not just sex.

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This is all really great. I mean, without self-awareness, we don't really have the freedom to choose our courses in life. So all questions of this nature lead to it, and it's important to recognize.

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The question, I suppose, is whether (assuming some of this is correct) recognizing a supposed "bad reason" makes it less bad. Is it still a crappy idea to do what you're going to do, or does it fundamentally change if you're no longer pulling the wool over your own eyes?

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It depends, but in general, I would say that knowing something is bad for you maybe makes it less "bad" from the right/wrong and good/evil standpoint. But you will still suffer detrimental effects, even if your awareness allows you to adapt to them (like, say, an alcoholic who "knows" he has a drinking problem but won't quit).

Of course, another way to look at it is that the truly self-aware never make "bad" choices. How could they? If they are truly self-aware, then they are making the exact choice that is best for them at every moment possible.

[ElSapo]

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What we're really talking about here is probably not sex, but self awareness. Why we do -many- of the things we do, not just why we screw who we do.

Which doesn't really make your statement wrong, only incomplete, I think. Isn't all of this the basis for therapy in general? Working out the underlying reasons we make any of the choices we do?

I've always believed that as long as you understood your choices - where they come from, their implications on yourself and others - as long as we're honest with ourselves, the idea of "bad choices" becomes a little, well, less so.

Granted, that's a high bar. But real self examination and honesty are good goals to set, in all endeavors and not just sex.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is all really great. I mean, without self-awareness, we don't really have the freedom to choose our courses in life. So all questions of this nature lead to it, and it's important to recognize.

[ QUOTE ]
The question, I suppose, is whether (assuming some of this is correct) recognizing a supposed "bad reason" makes it less bad. Is it still a crappy idea to do what you're going to do, or does it fundamentally change if you're no longer pulling the wool over your own eyes?

[/ QUOTE ]
It depends, but in general, I would say that knowing something is bad for you maybe makes it less "bad" from the right/wrong and good/evil standpoint. But you will still suffer detrimental effects, even if your awareness allows you to adapt to them (like, say, an alcoholic who "knows" he has a drinking problem but won't quit).

Of course, another way to look at it is that the truly self-aware never make "bad" choices. How could they? If they are truly self-aware, then they are making the exact choice that is best for them at every moment possible.

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Well ... Sometimes we think we're aware of our motivations but we may be deluding ourselves.

Also, some people are self-destructive. But that may be another category of motivation altogether.

[ClarkNasty]

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This encompasses things like going to the gym and focusing on looking attractive instead of increasing your health. Also, things like maybe going to medical school or buying a rolex or going to a lame social gathering even though you don't think it'll be fun would apply. Literally anything that has been done in the name of increasing the chances of having sex can fall under this umbrella.

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Which gets back to the point that everything guys do is related to improving their chances not only at sex, but at the perceived best quality sex partner.

And obviously "everything" or "everyone" isn't exactly accurate, but I think it's generally true, which I think is to your point.

[nath]

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Well ... Sometimes we think we're aware of our motivations but we may be deluding ourselves.

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Yep... hence my qualifier of the "truly" self-aware. Most of us delude ourselves in at least some capacity, either because it's easier or because we simply don't know any better.

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Also, some people are self-destructive. But that may be another category of motivation altogether.

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Yep-- not everyone's true motives are traditional, and especially with artistic and spiritual types, the destructive goes hand in hand with the creative. It's a release of energy. Not to mention, the destructive has its role for everyone else as well-- you have to tear down a bad foundation before you can build a sturdy home, or something.