Low-Stakes Multi-Tablers: Moving up to Career Play

[Collin Moshman]

Hi Guys,

It seems there has been more discussion of career play in this forum recently. Let me address one aspect of turning a small side income into a career.

Suppose you are a Stars $16 grinder, multi-tabling with an ROI of 7% over many games. You should strongly consider playing fewer tables at a higher buyin (bankroll allowing, of course). Doing so will have an uncertain effect on your hourly winrate. This is because:

Playing volume will decrease (=> lower hourly winrate)
Competition generally improves (=> lower ROI)
Fewer tables allows for better decision-making (=> higher ROI)
You are investing a greater amount per game (=> higher $ profit per given ROI)

Combining these variables into a black-and-white result on hourly winrate effects is, unfortunately, not possible.

Regardless of winrate, your fluctuations will increase since you necessarily win more or lose more every game. So if winrate is uncertain, and variance is sure to rise, why should you concentrate on fewer tables at higher buyin?

Because if you are a low-stakes grinder, increasing your buyin is the only way you can achieve a long-term goal of an SNG career (or very substantial side income). You must always be aware of your SNG goals. Perhaps you have other career goals and know you are strictly a hobbyist, or maybe the extra income you get from your present routine is crucial to paying the rent each month and you cannot risk higher swings right now. There is nothing wrong with these scenarios, and I’m certainly not advocating all low-stakes grinders set their sites on an SNG career.

But if you do aspire to be a serious winner, you must consistently strive to move up in stakes (bankroll allowing, see “Sit ‘n Go Business Concepts Summarized” in my book, or simply do a forum search on bankroll discussion). This is accomplished by studying the game, and allowing your strategy to evolve and improve, even if high-volume push-botting at the lower stakes seems a "safer" proposition.

Know your SNG goals, and realize that higher buyin investments are what lead to increased income in the long run.

Good luck guys, and I will take questions in this thread about making a living from SNG play (75%+ of income deriving from SNGs).

Best Regards,
Collin


PS If you are indeed a high-volume low-mid stakes player, PM me if you’re interested in potentially earning some free money/coaching.

[bones]

Collin,

Serious question here, not trying to bust your balls. At what point, if ever, did you start regularly or semi-regularly reading this forum?

[Guthrie]

Will your book tell me how to win coin flips?

Will moving up in stakes magically cause me to even occasionally beat a pair with overcards or overcards with a pair?

Do they have less than 12 aces in the deck at higher stakes?

[K䲰䮥n]

Man, I wish you were here two years ago. I didn't know that Party had stakes as high as the 22s [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] I just knew that all the other pros werent making that much money in the 11s.

[Rusty Nails]

Something that surprised me when I switched to sngs was that very few players seem to make a good income. When I first went to the profit leaderboard on Sharkscope, there weren't that many players who were on pace to make 80k/yr. Is this correct?

[mattnxtc]

I guess my question/response (I know I am new to sng forum) is this:

Isnt it more of a relative question on whether it is more profitable as you move up?

Playing more tables at a lower/easier limit can lead to more profit over playing in higher/tougher games where your winrate goes down enough to cause worse gains than at a lower level.

IIRC, Todd Brunson was a bid advocate in cash games of playing at the most profitable level, not just at the highest level where his winrate was significantly lower?

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
Will your book tell me how to win coin flips?

Will moving up in stakes magically cause me to even occasionally beat a pair with overcards or overcards with a pair?

Do they have less than 12 aces in the deck at higher stakes?

[/ QUOTE ]

pineapple gimmick act?

[lacky]

I agree in general, but not everyone has moving up to the higher games as a goal. If that is a persons goal, then those steps are right on.

There are some players making $20+/hour at the lower stakes and have been for a long time. Could they make more moving up? Probably, but they would also have larger swings, more losing weeks, etc. Everyone has to decide for themselves where their comfort zones and goals are. If they are happiest playing lots of low limits games a week and making a smaller sum, but making money nearly every week, there really isnt anything wrong with that.

When I was grinding $55's, I made money about 80% of weeks, and went a couple years without ever having a losing month. Playing all the bigger mtt's fulltime now, I make more than twice as much per hour, but I have lots of losing months, and have twice been down over 3 month periods. There's a large emotional tradeoff between the two. I would completely understand anyone that chose to stay in the lower income higher winrate group.

Steve

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi Guys,

It seems there has been more discussion of career play in this forum recently. Let me address one aspect of turning a small side income into a career.

Suppose you are a Stars $16 grinder, multi-tabling with an ROI of 7% over many games. You should strongly consider playing fewer tables at a higher buyin (bankroll allowing, of course). Doing so will have an uncertain effect on your hourly winrate. This is because:

Playing volume will decrease (=> lower hourly winrate)
Competition generally improves (=> lower ROI)
Fewer tables allows for better decision-making (=> higher ROI)
You are investing a greater amount per game (=> higher $ profit per given ROI)

Combining these variables into a black-and-white result on hourly winrate effects is, unfortunately, not possible.

Regardless of winrate, your fluctuations will increase since you necessarily win more or lose more every game. So if winrate is uncertain, and variance is sure to rise, why should you concentrate on fewer tables at higher buyin?

Because if you are a low-stakes grinder, increasing your buyin is the only way you can achieve a long-term goal of an SNG career (or very substantial side income). You must always be aware of your SNG goals. Perhaps you have other career goals and know you are strictly a hobbyist, or maybe the extra income you get from your present routine is crucial to paying the rent each month and you cannot risk higher swings right now. There is nothing wrong with these scenarios, and I’m certainly not advocating all low-stakes grinders set their sites on an SNG career.

But if you do aspire to be a serious winner, you must consistently strive to move up in stakes (bankroll allowing, see “Sit ‘n Go Business Concepts Summarized” in my book, or simply do a forum search on bankroll discussion). This is accomplished by studying the game, and allowing your strategy to evolve and improve, even if high-volume push-botting at the lower stakes seems a "safer" proposition.

Know your SNG goals, and realize that higher buyin investments are what lead to increased income in the long run.

Good luck guys, and I will take questions in this thread about making a living from SNG play (75%+ of income deriving from SNGs).

Best Regards,
Collin


PS If you are indeed a high-volume low-mid stakes player, PM me if you’re interested in potentially earning some free money/coaching.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, doesn't obvious blather plus a PS offering coaching constitute spam?

Mods notified.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Will your book tell me how to win coin flips?

Will moving up in stakes magically cause me to even occasionally beat a pair with overcards or overcards with a pair?

Do they have less than 12 aces in the deck at higher stakes?

[/ QUOTE ]

pineapple gimmick act?

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] That would be a whole lotta posts for a gimmick acct.