NL 25. Yes/No question on JJ over-agression

[Sordini]

No reads.
Was reluctant to 3bet with 2 unknown villains.
Decided to play for a low board or set.

Yes/No Question:
If I had to play this hand again from the flop onwards, I would probably play it the same way. As played is over-aggression a problem?

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.20
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 raises to $0.8</font>, CO calls, Button folds, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($2.6, 3 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG+1 bets $2</font>, CO calls, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $10</font>, UTG+1 folds, CO calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($24.6, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets $9.05</font>, <font color="#cc0000">CO calls all-in $9.05</font>.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($42.7, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $42.7)


Results:
Final pot: $42.7

[toddxlogan]

The inability of anybody to answer this question is because its way too hard to have any idea of villain's range the way you played this hand. Villain could literally have any PP 33-AA, and we haven't defined it at all.

3-bet PF in this spot is MANDATORY, IMO. Fold to a 4-bet, and if he calls we've narrowed down his range quite a bit, and can safely fold if he gets super-frisky post flop.

As played PF... hard. I'm trying to figure out what the best course of action is. Raising clearly does not fold out any better hands, and i'm not sure that any worse hand calls. I think because of that, a call-down is best, though you can probably fold if he continues strength and an a or k show up.

Regardless, 3-bet J's religiously pf. Makes things so much easier.

[sww]

Against some players there is simply no value in 3betting JJ preflop. We shouldn't follow any rule religiously in poker.

As for the postflop action, I like it quite a lot. You get calls from way worse. I would raise a bit less on flop though.

[Triggerle]

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=11726714

[ajmargarine]

[ QUOTE ]
No reads.
Was reluctant to 3bet with 2 unknown villains.


[/ QUOTE ]

Don't be.

[toddxlogan]

[ QUOTE ]
Against some players there is simply no value in 3betting JJ preflop. We shouldn't follow any rule religiously in poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like who? A 12/3 or something?

[ QUOTE ]

As for the postflop action, I like it quite a lot. You get calls from way worse. I would raise a bit less on flop though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Way worse hands like what? 77,88,99, and TT? How about 33,55,66, QQ,KK, AA? Tell me you think any of the latter are not calling, and that on that board there isn't at least a hint of a chance of the first 4 folding when you would instead see continued bets from them?

Anyone else? Am I crazy for thinking this?

[Sordini]

Triggerle, thanks for that link.

I kinda knew everyones comments would focus on the 3bet issue because it would have simplified the hand. However since I didn't 3bet this time. Alas the number of replies is quite low...

[toddxlogan]

Sordini-

These sorts of posts are not intended to instruct players on how they "should have" played hands. That would be pointless , as far as I can see. Moreover, they are meant to instruct players on how to play these hands next time. As such, 3-bet pf next time and then see if you are forced to make any hard decisions after that. I bet you won't.

Todd

[sww]

87s, 76s, 54s, A6, K6, 86s, 96s... Of course it would be easier if we knew how tight/loose villain is.

[cianosheehan]

Dont be afraid of 3betting JJ against unkowns. The fact that they are playing these stakes is enough of a read in itself.

As played, you are donking off too much, which reduces your value from the hand;

A - 3betting
B - calling

For the times you are behind an over pair, you are getting stacked in B, but possibly not in A - you may decide to fold to a 4 bet, or he may flat call so as not to push you off, allowing you to hit a set. Also, if he does 4bet, it may be small enough for you to have odds to hit a set.

For the times you are against overcards, in A you are charging them to hit, but in B they get a free draw.

For when they have an underpair, its the same again. You are charging them to hit in A, and giving a free draw in B - but in B, you are still going to get stacked if they improve their hand.

Also when they have an underpair and a K Q or A flops, your limiting the profitability of your hand

So to summarise, your play in OP isnt bad - its probably at least marginally profitable considering the stakes. But, you are losing value by not protecting your hand, and when you are putting your stack in any way, it's better to use it to maximum effect.