1/2 Two river crying calls

Gelford · #1 05-26-2007, 08:36 AM

In both cases I intended to fold river, but then noticed potsize and made a crying call .... should I just fold ?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls, CO raises, Button calls, Hero calls, 1 fold, MP calls.

Flop: (9 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
Hero bets, MP calls, CO raises, Button folds, Hero 3-bets, MP calls, CO caps, Hero calls, MP calls.

Turn: (10.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

River: (13.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets, Hero calls, MP calls.

Final Pot: 16.50 BB

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 2 folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (4 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

DVDA4life · #2 05-26-2007, 08:58 AM

In the first hand I normally reraise preflop. We have a strong hand that does very well multiway, and even though we are out of position I push this edge. I don't mind your flop line, just calling the raise would be okay too. As played fold this river unless you have a read that the co is a manaic. Yes the pot is huge, but CO capped the flop and you hold the 2 highest clubs so he likely has a made hand. The only hand of his you beat would be TcJc but this is pretty unlikely (not to mention he might take the free card with this hand) and you have another player behind you to act.

For the second hand I would probably just fold the flop, as we are likely behind and have very little chance of improving. He usually has made hand here since there is no flush draw and the only other big draw is the 9T straight draw which most people would fold from the small blind. Since he is much more likely to have a jack or an 8 than a 5, I just fold here while the pot is still small. If you have a read that he is agressive or donks with nothing then call down. As played, that is a great turn card for you, but that raise is really bad. The only draw on the board just got there, and most people won't fold middle pair here. I would call the turn and pray, and fold the river without thinking twice (especially as played).

yourface · #3 05-26-2007, 11:57 AM

you're done, son. villain has strongly defined his hand in both of these I don't think you are ever good. flop cap 3way and turn bet/3bet are very strong moves.

hand 1 on the flop it is close between b/c c/c c/r, but I like c/r the most. villain is cbetting 100% generally and you have very good equity here vs his preflop raising range, plus you might be able to trap button for multiple bets.

against perceptive villains leading is less likely to get callers because it is interpreted as a strong move and they still have to worry about the pfr behind them.

I don't like your 3bet because you are behind the raisers range and you might push out your caller who is padding the pot for you.

hand 2 just call the turn. if he has a strong hand you are charging yourself extra, and if he has a bluff you are letting him get away cheap. if he had a draw on the flop that 7 improves them all to hand better than yours anyways.

Oink · #4 05-26-2007, 01:36 PM

I really dont like any of those hands...

Hand 1) I am not a big fan of the flop 3-bet. The donk is prolly ok 4-way but the 3-bet is pushing a marginal edge and diminishing your implied odds. I would just call and c/r if I improve on a later street. The crying call is bad. You beat nothing but maybe JTcc.

Hand 2) I dislike the turn play. The turn helps the part of villains range that you were ahead of on the flop. You dont have eq to raise and you dont fold a better hand. Just call it. The river is a fold IMO. You are hoping he has ATss or A9ss. Only 2 combos of those.

jstill · #5 05-26-2007, 01:50 PM

see oinks post

flop line in hand 1 and turn in hand 2 are not small leaks

on the river u probably win hnd 1 less than 1 in 20 times. Even if u had just called the flop raise ( so his hand was less defined on that street) and for some reason the pot was still offering u the same pot odds itd still be a fold when he bets into two again on this board. Hoping he raised the flop with a weak flush draw and didnt freecard and will now bluff the river or vb QT or JTcc is not enough of a concern at all.

Hand 2 u mite win 1:15 or so if u run into some huge spazz randomly and he decided to spaz badly this hand with like Q9? theres not even any draws u beat now since 97 96 76 and T9 got there and no fd exists. just call turn and crying call a blank river i guess and hope hes the type to donk bottom pair nd fire 3 oop. Since u have to call a 3bet here the raise sucks even worse and u bloat the pot for the river, u dont hve the equity to raise for value against the range of hnds he donks into 2 from the sb (esp now on tghe turn) and u shouldnt freeshowdown becuz he wont fold a better hand he donked with 8x very often at all, or str draw and now pair of 7s, tho he mite ditch bottom pair.