***OFFICIAL*** LOST Season 3 Episode 20 Discussion -spoiler free-

[easternbloc]

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So any speculation on when/how the 'natives' got to the island?

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Descendants of the black rock ship people?

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it's gotta be aliens LDO

[Hold'em 07]

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Jake looks like Jack's dad to me.

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I thought he/it sort of looked like Locke with a wig.

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Thought the same thing, maybe foreshadowing Locke becoming Jacob in some way.

[RacersEdge]

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So apparently Ben was a part of Dharma and helped the hostiles overtake his own group.....so what exactly could've happened after that to make Ben the leader now?

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I'm thinking it's something along the lines of Ben was "the one".

[Isura]

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locke was def sniffing that powder for too long, and the scene was too long for the powder to be nothing. I think that the powder = another type of electric fence, but for spirits/thoughts/souls/who knows.

Ben insisted on knowing what locke heard jacob say, because ben knows that he is trapped there. Dunno about the fire/explosion/fury in the hut when locke turned the flashlight on.

Possibly ben has pyscho powers, and made this fury to make it seem like jacob was actually pissed and so locke would leave/not hear anything else.

HMMMMM????

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I thought it was obvious that the dust was volcanic ashes..

[skiier04]

Jacob = What Ben sees from the smoke monster.

Locke is "Jacob" and will soon become the physical and spiritual leader of the island.

[Nonfiction]

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So apparently Ben was a part of Dharma and helped the hostiles overtake his own group.....so what exactly could've happened after that to make Ben the leader now?

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I'm thinking it's something along the lines of Ben was "the one".

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Jacob is obv a dead man. Ben can see dead people, as he saw his mother on the island. When he told Richard this, he seemed very surprised and excited and questioned him pretty intently. Ben became the leader of the group due to this ability, perhaps because he was the only one who could hear/see jacob. If Locke can hear/see Jacob as well, that challenges Ben's role as pseudo-leader of the group. It seems obvious that many dislike Ben and would support Locke in a coup, and if Locke can also get orders from Jacob it would mean there was no more use for Ben.

[anduril]

why did everyone just watch as locke beat up mikhail? I was about to say what the last poster said that Ben can see dead people, but since Locke can obv see mikhail he isn't really dead right?

[Assani Fisher]

So after what we saw tonight...

What could possibly be a reasonable reason why Ben wanted Locke to kill his father?

[xadrez]

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Interesting thought...

What exactly was it that Locke bent over and scooped up(looked like dirt) as they were walking? I don't know if anyone has seen the movie The Skeleton Key but some Voodoo/Hoodoo cultures believe that you sprinkle certain substances around something to keep bad spirits out.

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Keep out or keep in. My vote is keep in. Hence the "help me"

[NT!]

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So apparently Ben was a part of Dharma and helped the hostiles overtake his own group.....so what exactly could've happened after that to make Ben the leader now?

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I'm thinking it's something along the lines of Ben was "the one".

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yeah i made a similar remark to my lady friend while ben was talking to richard in the woods.

funny that the quote for this week was from the matrix, because there seems to be this implied cycle of war between camps on the island. hostiles and D.I. losties and hostiles. etc. kind of like that thing from one of the later matrix movies where it turns out there have been a bunch of matrixes.

this also brings in the issue of, if the hostiles killed all the dharma people, wtf is up with them now having access to the outside world, appearing to have projects of their own, etc? are the hostiles actually a part of dharma afterall? did they engage with them after the massacre? i mean there's no way the hostiles are really the 'natives' of the island, they got there somehow. perhaps ben engineered some sort of conspiracy within dharma regarding the project and the people who were employed there? man i really don't know.

richard's comments to locke about ben being interested in silly projects also points to a notion of repeated revolution or a series of prophets taking control over the hostiles (who apparently don't age, or perhaps don't die?)

also, based on the spoiler from the finale:
<font color="white"> i'm struggling to see what motivation locke and jack will have to fight in the final episode. locke isn't going to be exactly enchanted with the hostiles, unless he makes it back and becomes their new leader. </font>

one last thing. if jacob really is the smoke monster, or is related to him in some way, remember that juliet says the smoke monster doesn't like / can't get by the fences. so that would contribute to the notion of ben imprisoning him or something, or at least confirm that ben must be deceiving them about jacob.