2 overpairs, odd line

[danzasmack]

People c/r the flop at a high frequency, seemingly too high, in the games I've been playing in lately. I would say a flop c/r ranges from a monster to absolutley nothing and pretty much everything in between. I find this pattern pretty predictable and my winning session are usually characterized by my opponents abilities to hit their 3-6 outers.

The other end of the spectrum, is the check/call. I would say that 90% of the time this type of villain check/calls they check/fold a turn blank.

Both villains fit the description above.

I raise KK in the CO, villain calls in BB.

Flop is T82r. Villain check/calls.

Turn A. Villain checks, I check.

River 7. Villain bets, I raise
*****************************************

JJ UTG, I raise, BB calls

Flop 974

Villain checks, I bet, he calls

Turn 2

Villain checks, I check

How do the 2 compare? I don't like my check as much in the 2nd hand on the 2, but if it was a 4 I would love it.

This is far from standard for me, I think this is the only 2 instances I have ever played a hand like this, like this. Just trying some new things as people have gotten better at reading my hands.

Also, if you don't think this play is good vs. anyone that's fine too.

[Victor]

fps that is really bad play.

[wackjob]

I don't get why you are giving free cards instead of value betting?

[danzasmack]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't get why you are giving free cards instead of value betting?

[/ QUOTE ]

basically say he is check folding vs me a lottt

[wackjob]

[ QUOTE ]
basically say he is check folding vs me a lottt

[/ QUOTE ]

i still don't get it.

[danzasmack]

am i value betting the turn if i'm almost certain they're folding both times? Why not check the turn and raise the river?

[disjunction]

[ QUOTE ]
am i value betting the turn if i'm almost certain they're folding both times? Why not check the turn and raise the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you think he's check calling the turn with? You may be able to really really squint and see how your lines may be correct if he's peeling with 0-3 outers. But if you think he may have a gutshot or bottom pair, he got odds to peel the flop when you checked the turn! In addition, on hand 1, he may have gotten there.

[Victor]

danza, when ppl that normally cr just call a flop its for a couple reasons. the have bottom pair or 22 or ace high. they have air. they have weak gutshot with no overs. also, they may be super strong and cr turn but thats negligible.

[wackjob]

value bet and win a small pot cause villain folded is far superior to checking and giving a free card and losing a big pot on the river because villain caught a 2-5 outer.

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
danza, when ppl that normally cr just call a flop its for a couple reasons. the have bottom pair or 22 or ace high. they have air. they have weak gutshot with no overs. also, they may be super strong and cr turn but thats negligible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Victor,

In what cases will you c/c a flop?