2/4 Interesting Flop Decision

[nopepper]

No real reads on this hand. Im sitting at $500 to start this hand and in the BB. We are 6 handed.

One limp, Pot bet from UTG+1, flat call from CO, button folds, SB folds, I call with Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Limper calls

Flop is Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I check, limper leads pot, pre raiser re pots, co folds. Whats your play? Limper has $250 left original raiser has me covered.

[chucky]

I call. If limper shoves we are up against two straights with the bonus back flush draw. This would be shove time.

[JamaY]

I'd call and call a shove from limper since we're getting 3:1 odds to call and you'll improve to a boat 30% of the time. If the limper flat calls, you can reconsider on the turn.

[DonCologne]

So the pot is 74$ at the flop. Early limper bets 74$, raiser reraises to 296$ and you will flat call? I think it is here more a shove or fold situation and in the worst case you shove, early limper folds and raiser calls with the nuts. You have now 38,81% equity. So you will loose in this situation 57,42$.

What happens if early limpers calls?

Your equity is in both pots 38,81% if both opponets holds j9**. For the 770$ main pot your equity is high enough for the 500$ side pot it is not.

In the main pot you will win 66,84$ in the side pot you will loose 55,95$. So push is here +EV if shortie holds J9. If he holds 2 pair+flush draw or set+(flushdraw) your equity is now only 28,13% if he has a set or 32,6% if he holds 2 pair+flushdraw.

Now you will loose 15,4$ or win 19,02$ in the main pot and loose 55,95$ in the side pot.

So I think in this situation fold>shove>call and I think between fold and shove it is closely, because the raiser will show here sometimes a lower set with the nutflushdraw you are in good shape against.

[chucky]

Early limper bets 57 dollars by my calc. Which makes it 171 to hero. Shoving is fine. I just worry that you fold out a bare nut straight on the flop if you shove. That screws with our odds for full house.

[DonCologne]

One limp 10$ in the pot + 4$ call from raiser + 14$ raise = 18$ for everybody. So 4 people involved at the flop = 72$ + 2$ from SB. Potsize at the flop 74$ q.e.d.

[DonCologne]

[ QUOTE ]
Early limper bets 57 dollars by my calc. Which makes it 171 to hero. Shoving is fine. I just worry that you fold out a bare nut straight on the flop if you shove.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would be happy if big stack fold the bare nut straight. But with allready over 300$ put in the pot bigstack will call here to 100% even without a redraw.

[cmyr]

I get out of the way here alot of I think I might ever be up against another set.... granted, how this was played it's hard to put anyone on a set, so I dunno. On a coordinated board like this though it's also likely that somebody with the straight has also got some fh blockers. I think with the dead money and your back door flushdraw though I'd be tempted to get it in here. I'd also raise instead of calling because it saves time.

[mixmastermattyk]

Not wanting to hijack your thread but just add to it, I played a fairly similar hand this morning: isn't our best case scenario to be up against two nut straights? My push didn't get the result I wanted although in reality there is pretty much no difference between a push and call -

Poker Stars - Pot Limit Omaha Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $230.50
BB: $245.00
Hero (UTG): $193.00
CO: $225.30
BTN: $200.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 Players)
Hero calls $2.00, CO calls $2.00, BTN calls $2.00, SB calls $1.00, BB checks

Flop: ($10) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $8.00</font>, BB calls $8.00, Hero calls $8.00, <font color="red">CO raises to $49.50</font>, BTN folds, <font color="red">SB raises to $174.00</font>, BB folds, <font color="red">Hero raises all-in to $191.00</font>, CO folds, SB calls $17.00

Turn: ($449.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($449.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $449.50 ($2 Rake)

SB had Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (a straight, Five to Nine) and WON (+$254.50)
Hero had 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and LOST (-$193.00)

[sqwisssssss]

i think i like calling here to let original limper get his money in too. i'm drawing to the nut full house so i basically have nothing to protect as far as my hand goes. i want as much money to get into the pot if i hit my hand. if i reraise here, i feel like i might just be isolating myself with the guy who has me beat already. meh.

i also lean towards the side of folding on the flop.......but thats just me. the way the action came off, i feel certain i dont have the best hand in this spot and i'm not sure if original limper is coming along for the ride to help sweeten the pot for my fullhouse draw.

i think any line here is ok based on the numbers. my opinion:

1:call
2:fold
3:shove