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  #11  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:23 PM
Howard Beale Howard Beale is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

I dislike the betting line. There are people who have difficulty even reaching it (the old, short, infirm) and there are just as many arguments w/ the betting line as without.

Whatever you do don't do what Casino Arizona has done: Install betting lines that are not betting lines. When they put them in a few years ago I asked a floor person why they were installing betting lines. She answered that they weren't sure if they would use them as betting lines. Well, they are not betting lines but when out-of-towners visit many think they are betting lines thus making things ridiculous sometimes.
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  #12  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:15 PM
pfapfap pfapfap is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

[ QUOTE ]
Whatever you do don't do what Casino Arizona has done: Install betting lines that are not betting lines.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to view these as "don't be a douche, put your bets in where the dealer can reach them" line. There's probably some OSHA thing associated with it, too. I like them.

I run a home game with several tables and people coming from various levels of poker experience. We have no lines. People cut out chips in front of their cards sometimes, and even occasionally leave them sitting there why thinking about action. In two years it has not been a problem for people to rub two brain cells together to either: understand through body language and facial expression and hand movement; or simply ask what the other player is doing.

I work in a room with the line, but it's not an official betting line. Again, so far there has been no confusion. Other regional rooms use it as a line, but those who travel between casinos don't seem confused. I, as a dealer, run my game well. I understand and respect the game of poker. I can tell when others may be confused by their perceived ambiguity and I nip situations before they occur.

Encourage those who play in your room to announce all action and train your dealers to run the game, and it will never matter. But put in the line so your dealers have something to point to for the a-hole customers, and support your dealers when they insist a-hole players in the outlying seats push their bets forward. I think using the line as a guide is good, but giving it magical properties leads to nittitude of extreme proportions.

WHATEVER you do, DO NOT have the air space above the line be included in whatever. I've been in places that ruled (in limit) that if you had enough chips in your hand for a raise, it's a raise, regardless of how many you released. I can understand how these silly policies came into being, but there are other, saner solutions.
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  #13  
Old 12-01-2007, 05:49 PM
PokrLikeItsProse PokrLikeItsProse is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

I like a betting line as an unambiguous demarcation. I am also okay with a betting line being loosely enforced, with the idea that initial violations get warnings and that habitual violators get strictly enforced. I don't mind if dealers are a bit more lenient toward people like the elderly if they are making errors in good faith. I do like it as a tool which dealers can selectively enforce a bit stronger against [censored] players to keep them in line.
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  #14  
Old 12-01-2007, 08:40 PM
Small Fry Small Fry is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

I can go either way on the line. Not having it creates one set of potetial problems. Having it creates a different set. It doesn't really solve anything.

As for having it but not enforcing it. Or loosely enforcing it....hmmmm. Need to think some more about it, but my intial thoughts are this just opens up more problems. It's there but it's not...??

If you're going to spend some time, effort and money why not just put it into additional training for the dealers on the current house rules. Re-enforce attention to detail and player intent, with some focus on controlling the action.

Seems to me most of these problems occur due to other players acting too quickly or impatience. Speed is one thing, but without accuracy, everyone will suffer. Pfapfap makes some very good points about what he expects from his customers when he deals.
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  #15  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:44 PM
NicksDad1970 NicksDad1970 is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

I don't really care either way. For a while The Grand in Tunica used it but then suddenly stopped.
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  #16  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:54 PM
Photoc Photoc is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

A story from personal experience as why I f'in HATE HATE HATE betting lines. They are designed to make you bet what you didn't want to and not allow you to bet what you wanted to.

I'm playing at GVR and I'm in the 1 seat on a NL game. I announce "bet 35" and then reach over the line and the dealer says "everything in your hand is now a bet". Ok, I'm like...wtf just happened. I ask for a floor 3 times before the dealer just finally huffs at me and calls. The floor says that the "line overules verbal even if the verbal is made before the chips go over the line in my hand". I racked up and have never set foot in the place again.

This BS of "everything in your hand" is a bet stuff is retarded. Most all poker players take out a bunch a then cut /drop what we want to bet. I have no problem with making the player make the minimum action, whether it be a bet of at least the minimum or a call.

Another problem I have is when a player throws say 7 or 8 chips out and a few of them don't clear the line or even land on it. Now there are arguments over how many actually are in play. WTF AGAIN. The player threw them out there,why are they not a bet when it CLEARLY is a bet??? And yes, it's clear they are betting them, it's not some nit uber angle shooter bs angle to test the dealer and players.

In our house we have a line, and it's stricly for courtesy for the dealers to have the players put them chips outwards so we can reach. (The CM thought it'd be a nice design without actually knowing what the lines on poker tables were, and that's another story). Any chips released in front (towards the dealer) of your cards are in play is the rule. And this is also the rule I favor as well as we try to explain it to players when they sit at the table.
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2007, 01:34 AM
daveT daveT is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

I was angle shot once because I pushed a stack in and the top part of it fell backwards behind the line. I do not like the line, especially if it is an arms reach away.
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  #18  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:37 AM
PokrLikeItsProse PokrLikeItsProse is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

[ QUOTE ]

As for having it but not enforcing it. Or loosely enforcing it....hmmmm. Need to think some more about it, but my intial thoughts are this just opens up more problems. It's there but it's not...??


[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts are that there are some rules which are going to be hell if enforced in a nitty fashion, but which address legitimate concerns. I'd compare it to speed limits on the highway. I think that there definitely should be a speed limit of some sorts (some may disagree), but I think a zero-tolerance enforcement policy would be a bad idea.

When I say it should be loosely enforced, I mean that all offenses should definitely be acknowledged, but violators should be given a warning and not forced bet on the first occasion and maybe future occasions. Problem players and angle shooters should get fewer warnings.

Of course we could just make it easier and get rid of no limit, which seems like the cause of most controversies. Well, I can dream, can't I?
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  #19  
Old 12-02-2007, 03:58 AM
Oberonn Oberonn is offline
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Default Re: Another question on player preferences.

You have nits and angle-shooters whether there are betting lines or not, so this line of reasoning is a non-issue to me.

I like the betting lines because my vision is not what it once was and the bet lines force the end of the table players to push their chips out further. This also helps the dealers with short arms and/or large breasts reach the chips.
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