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  #1  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:59 PM
Nichomacheo Nichomacheo is offline
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Default NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

Very early in the match. Whats the game plan here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (2 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t1770)
BB (t1230)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, BB calls t40.

Flop: (t120) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets t20</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero ?</font>

Part of me says fold, its a small pot and I don't have a piece of it. Part of me says raise; his lead is weak and if he calls my raise, I'll just shut down. Other part says no, raising puts me in a bad spot, just call and see what happens on the turn. What are you doing?
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:37 PM
noneedtobluf noneedtobluf is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

It helps to know opponents flop aggression factor combined with previous history of showdown hands when he has donk bet the flop. Something important to consider is flop texture when raising the weak lead. A flop of K 9 T hits a lot of the opponents range either giving him a middle pair and straight draw type hand. So on that texture flop you're more likely to get called when you raise. When an opponent donks on a A66 flop, or a K 4 8 they are more likely to fold their donkebet to a raise as its easier to represent strength to them. Basically on non draw heavy boards raise the weak lead, others just consider folding. Calling the weak lead is okay if you have some showdown value otherwise I would just wait for a better spot.
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Old 12-01-2007, 04:10 PM
52_4 52_4 is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

The board is not very coordinated. Against an unknown, I raise to 140. My experience is they usually fold. Especially if you've been raising a lot pre-flop, some opponents tend to get frustrated and donk into you with air. Of course, if he has shown not to fold when I raise, I just fold here.
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Old 12-01-2007, 05:11 PM
daveT daveT is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

I like calling it down. These guys seem like they are calling stations as well as idiotic bluffers.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:24 PM
tmcdmck tmcdmck is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

i raise all day long. these guys fold flop so often. if they call the raise they have a draw or 2nd pair always, so i double barrel, almost always folding out 2nd pair. on the river, if they are still in the pot, there is a good chance your A high is good.

but yeah they are so so weak, and they need to be punished
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Old 12-01-2007, 08:33 PM
Nichomacheo Nichomacheo is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

Interesting responses.

How does it change if your opponent leads for 40, 60, 100, 120?
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  #7  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:02 PM
tmcdmck tmcdmck is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

i would treat any bet smaller than their standard continuation bet the same as a minbet. bigger ones are pretty villain dependant, but i am apt to fold because:
1) you have much less room left in your stack to work with, making bluffing harder and your opponent more erratic
2) the play is less stupid, meaning i usually give villain more credit as a player, meaning that i definitely put top pair+ in their range. my flop donking range is actually weighted towards 2 pair+ i think.
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:23 PM
Somekid Somekid is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

I've read lots of threads where people say that min donkbets are very very weak, and how people auto raise them and then second barrel etc. Maybe this is sample size (although it's happened lots of times), or the stakes/site I play (stars 11s), but this strategy does not work for me. Often times they'll call the flop raise as well as my second barrel on the turn. They aren't folding anything against me.

In fact, sometimes I'll raise the min-donker on the flop, they'll call, and then they donk the turn again. WTF?!

Also, I have a lot of trouble dealing with players who donk every flop. This drives me absolutely crazy.
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:36 PM
bbbushu bbbushu is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

i almost never know what to do in these situations but until i figure out a counter strategy i generally raise less preflop with the mediocre hands i usually open with because it just bloats a pot that gets stolen from me.

i think the first time this happens and i have any hand i can take to showdown i do it so that i can at least get some idea of what villain's doing this with.

it's kind of a trick question bc different players do this move with different ranges - some people donk with top pair and up and some people will do it with K-hi on 48A and until i decide if im gonna raise the donks or play it passive (depending on my hand obv) i like to know what im adjusting to.

if some of the more experienced players have thoughts on this i'd love to hear it, though.

martin
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  #10  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:13 AM
TNixon TNixon is offline
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Default Re: NLTRN -- Dealing with small donkbets

[ QUOTE ]
i raise all day long. these guys fold flop so often. if they call the raise they have a draw or 2nd pair always, so i double barrel, almost always folding out 2nd pair. on the river, if they are still in the pot, there is a good chance your A high is good.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

Until somebody shows me that they either do this with weak made hands that they're never going to fold, or with strong hands to try to induce a raise, I raise these donk minbets no matter what my hand is, no matter what the board is, and almost no matter what the preflop action is, as long as it's not going to commit me to a big pot that I don't want to be commited to.

If they don't fold to the first barrel, they usually fold to the second, and if they don't fold to that, then you just have to river out on their weak pair. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Very few people do this with strong hands to induce a raise, because most of them simply aren't paying enough attention to know whether it would work or not, so this seems to almost always mean absolutely nothing, or at best bottom pair or an underpair.

Even against calling stations who will mindonk with both nothing and a weak pair, I still raise. If I have them beat, I want them to put money in bad, and if I have nothing, I want them to fold now.

There's a pretty small group of players who will make small bets whether they have nothing or the nuts, so you have to be more careful about them, but they're pretty few and far between and usually very easy to identify.

Now you just have to decide if you want to pay any attention at all to somebody who can't seem to manage to climb over a 5% ROI at $50s. Ignore at will. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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