Barry Bonds indicted

[BowToYourSensei]

seriously think about this: is the cost and energy spent on the bonds indictment worth the benefit of putting him behind bars for perjury? my whole point is that it isn't even close to worthwhile.

and don't cop out of this question by comparing it to iraq, the american economy is in its worth recession in a very long time and can ill afford to waste money like this (even if it is comparatively a small amount)

[Oski]

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TMTTR,

What would you think if the Government spent millions of dollars, and many years of efforts to finally get enough evidence to go to trial about whether or not you jaywalked on October 21st, 1990?

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If addressed to me, I would answer that your hypothetical is not analagous. Indeed, it would be a complete waste of time and resources here. The benefit of such an investigation would be de minimus and at great cost.

However, to rail against the perjury/obstruction investigation, etc., is to disagree with the BALCO proceedings in their entirety. (Of course, there are philosophical differences as to whether PED's are bad, etc., both legally and morally, and it may be of limited value to investigate such things, etc.) This is because these charges are collateral to the real proceedings, but they pop up as a matter of course when neccessary.

Telling the truth as a witness under oath is a fundamental value in our justice system. Proceeding with the prosecution of perjury in this case, help ensure truthful testimony in future proceedings. If people tell the truth, the legal system runs more efficiently, if they don't the resources required grow exponentially.

[UATrewqaz]

The government wastes almost all of the money it spends, so I'm really not shocked or anything.

If they didn't waste it on investigating Bonds they'd waste it some pork project dirt museum in Butthole, Arkansas or something.

I don't mean to sound overtly cynical, but until the US gets outraged by all the other waste this is just chump change.

[niss]

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TMTTR,

What would you think if the Government spent millions of dollars, and many years of efforts to finally get enough evidence to go to trial about whether or not you jaywalked on October 21st, 1990?

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LOL at equating jaywalking with intentionally testifying falsely in numerous respects before a federal grand jury.

The level of retardation in this thread is seriously astonishing.

[BowToYourSensei]

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The government wastes almost all of the money it spends, so I'm really not shocked or anything.

If they didn't waste it on investigating Bonds they'd waste it some pork project dirt museum in Butthole, Arkansas or something.

I don't mean to sound overtly cynical, but until the US gets outraged by all the other waste this is just chump change.

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no argument here; i still view this as an outrageous waste relative to the benefits of his conviction.

[NT!]

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^^^^ what Oski said. this originally wasn't about trying to get Bonds, but I think it largely turned into that b/c lots of folks thought he was largely lying under oath, which is a big deal.


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is it really a big deal? it didn't threaten me at all. honestly who gives a [censored] if barry bonds took steroids? and even if he did, does lying about taking steroids mean he should be threatened with spending what is quite possibly the rest of his life in prison? [censored] no. that's [censored] retarded. [censored] these [censored] for spending all this time to indict him when they probably won't even get a conviction, [censored] all of them and i hope they get AIDS and cancer and shingles and ulcerative colitis. i'm not even a bonds fan and this makes me [censored] sick. the guy can go to jail for 30 years for claiming he didn't know he was taking steroids? [censored] that and [censored] this country if they'll actually put him away for that. [censored] all you [censored] too who think this is remotely worth prosecuting.

'lying to a grand jury is a big deal.' no the [censored] it isn't, not when it's a grand jury convened to determine if a bunch of guys paid to play games for a living took some drugs or not. grand jury my ass, all it is is a farce of the legal system and an example of how far the courts in this country will bend over for ownership.

[censored] this [censored] it makes me [censored] sick, sucka sucka dick yall

[niss]

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obstruction of justice applies to the (long resolved) BALCO trial. if this indictment came within the first 18 months, that's fine, but when you can't build a case years after BALCO has been resolved, and when his testimony no longer provides any use whatsoever, exactly what is the point of going after him other than an expensive witchhunt?

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To all those complaining about how much money/time the government spent chasing Bonds, please answer these questions:

1. How much money DID the government spend in finally getting to an indictment?

2. How much MORE did the Bonds case cost the government, when compared to an average perjury investigation with an uncooperative target?

[BowToYourSensei]

bonds was given a waiver that everything said in his testimony would be kept 100% confidential and would never be used against him in a criminal case unless he lied, and that it would never be made public.

i think it's likely that if bonds knew with 100% certainty that his grand jury testimony was not to be made public, he would have told the truth. however, EVERYTHING that was said there by him, by giambi, and probably by others that i just don't remember offhand, was leaked to the media. as we all know, game of shadows is based on ILLEGALLY LEAKED TESTIMONY.

i dunno bout you, but i think the fact that the testimony, that legally is supposed to be kept in that room, was leaked is far worse than some of the testimony being false.

[Oski]

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The government wastes almost all of the money it spends, so I'm really not shocked or anything.

If they didn't waste it on investigating Bonds they'd waste it some pork project dirt museum in Butthole, Arkansas or something.

I don't mean to sound overtly cynical, but until the US gets outraged by all the other waste this is just chump change.

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no argument here; i still view this as an outrageous waste relative to the benefits of his conviction.

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I see your points, and I will not even try to convince you otherwise. However, one thing to consider. You frame this "witchhunt" as a four-year endeavor, but you seem to overlook that if some witness(es) had testified as they were supposed to, this would have likely finished a long time ago.

We can't look at the problem and say, "well, if this took one year, that would be fine, but if witnesses stonewall and it ends up taking four, we have to let it go." Once the process starts, the costs (not in dollars) go way up for backing out. We cannot allow people to get away with stonewalling and lying to grand juries whenever they make it expensive to catch them.

Again, it is all about protecting a fundamental value. And, by all means, I do acknowledge that there are many means to this end, and perhaps this one instance may not be worth it. Yet, I still don't believe that to be the case. The publicity garnered by this one perjury case, means that the government will actually get a lot of bang for their buck. In the end, it may have been quite a good use of resources in the grand scheme of things.

[niss]

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^^^^ what Oski said. this originally wasn't about trying to get Bonds, but I think it largely turned into that b/c lots of folks thought he was largely lying under oath, which is a big deal.


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is it really a big deal? it didn't threaten me at all. honestly who gives a [censored] if barry bonds took steroids? and even if he did, does lying about taking steroids mean he should be threatened with spending what is quite possibly the rest of his life in prison? [censored] no. that's [censored] retarded. [censored] these [censored] for spending all this time to indict him when they probably won't even get a conviction, [censored] all of them and i hope they get AIDS and cancer and shingles and ulcerative colitis. i'm not even a bonds fan and this makes me [censored] sick. the guy can go to jail for 30 years for claiming he didn't know he was taking steroids? [censored] that and [censored] this country if they'll actually put him away for that. [censored] all you [censored] too who think this is remotely worth prosecuting.

'lying to a grand jury is a big deal.' no the [censored] it isn't, not when it's a grand jury convened to determine if a bunch of guys paid to play games for a living took some drugs or not. grand jury my ass, all it is is a farce of the legal system and an example of how far the courts in this country will bend over for ownership.

[censored] this [censored] it makes me [censored] sick, sucka sucka dick yall

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the level of retardation in this thread is seriously astonishing.

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