Cheating in Online Poker

[gobbomom]

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I am all for more fish coming to the games, but not at the expense of my integrity or the integrity of the game. Fish should be fully informed about what they are getting themselves into, regardless of the affect that may have on Gobbo's (or anyone's) $EV. It's really not a grey issue unless you put money over ethics.



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I am addressing your replies that have demonstrated that you assume Jimmy DOES "put money over ethics". You're quite wrong, and I am tired of the innuendo.

[EC10]

good points serge. pretty much exactly what i was getting ready to write

[Butcho22]

Where are you going to publish this?

[the alex]

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I am all for more fish coming to the games, but not at the expense of my integrity or the integrity of the game. Fish should be fully informed about what they are getting themselves into, regardless of the affect that may have on Gobbo's (or anyone's) $EV. It's really not a grey issue unless you put money over ethics.

At any rate, in the long run the best thing to do is publically deal with the cheating issue, and address it the best way possible. Sweeping it under the rug, while possibly putting more $$$ in some pockets over the short term, is clearly not the best long-term solution.

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FWIW, I find your efforts admirable.

[uclabruinz]

Adanthar, I had no idea this was still going on until ActionJeff's thread, and your statement that you had no idea just how massive a problem this is until going to Vegas for WSOP is a big part of why I think this problem needs to be addressed as publically as possible.

So, your theory that everyone who is affected already knows is just wrong, and your theory that only those with a slightly +$EV in $215s are affected is equally wrong. Fish throw away $215 on Sundays all the time. Maybe they are a -50% ROI in a fair game and a -60% ROI in a game with cheating taking place. That's still money out of their pocket, and for you to insinuate otherwise is blatantly unfair to them.

[rothko]

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Paul,

How much of a difference is there really between your moral argument with Goboo and the moral argument between a vegan and someone who sympathizes with the current meat-processing industry?

Sure, I think it's kind of [censored] up the way livestock, chickens, pigs, etc. are treated, but in all honesty there is absolutely nothing that can be done without an incredibly massive attack that will end up harming millions in various ways. Basically, it's impossible to lift a rock so heavy without killing too many, even if it's a noble enterprise.

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0evg0, this is not analogous.

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If you don't see how this is at least similar, you're not trying very hard.

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i don't think that word means what you think it means.

[adanthar]

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Adanthar, I had no idea this was still going on until ActionJeff's thread, and your statement that you had no idea just how massive a problem this is until going to Vegas for WSOP is a big part of why I think this problem needs to be addressed as publically as possible.

So, your theory that everyone who is affected already knows is just wrong, and your theory that only those with a slightly +$EV in $215s are affected is equally wrong. Fish throw away $215 on Sundays all the time. Maybe they are a -50% ROI in a fair game and a -60% ROI in a game with cheating taking place. That's still money out of their pocket, and for you to insinuate otherwise is blatantly unfair to them.

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yeah, fine. so publicize it on 2+2, p5's, and every other part of the poker universe. that's fine. tbh, I'm not sure if that will actually out a single multiaccounter, but okay, I'm willing to go along with the idea that it might.

what's the point of putting it out on yahoo? so random people can have one more dumb question to ask me when they find out what I do? what good would it possibly do?

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btw, one more time: there's nothing inherently wrong with account sharing [lots of people share accounts, most of them totally innocently] and there's no such thing as people buying 10 bad horses into the Million [there's no reason to do that when you can just stake 10 good horses with bad bankroll management, instead. it's not like there's a shortage of thoroughbreds around these parts, y'know?]

there *is* such a thing as people chatting about hands over AIM, which may or may not be happening with other people they're staking. for many reasons, this is a completely separate issue from multiaccounting, and should be talked about separately, as well.

true multiaccounting is apparently far more widespread than I thought it was, yes. to stop it, you need to get the HSNL community to start policing itself. I don't think the way to do that is through exposure, either, but I'm open to debate.

[uclabruinz]

Adanthar, I think we basically just disagree on whether "fish" have a right to know whether the game is fair. I have learned that it is not fair, that it's probably not even close to fair, and feel an obligation (a) to do something to try to make it more fair and (b) to educate the public on the fact that the games they are playing in are likely not fair. It seems you would agree that we should try to make the games more fair, but not at the expense of discouraging fish to play, even if they are doing so without being fully informed that they are not entering a fair game. Do I have that correct?

[adanthar]

ucla,

online poker does not consist of one large game. it's a whole bunch of games, 95% of which are entirely multiaccount-less. the average fish does not play 215's and therefore has no reason to care; the average 'high stakes fish' probably at least reads some poker news site and can be informed without making Yahoo publish another 'online poker is illegal and also rigged. ps: bill frist was right' article that completely misses the point.

if the average fish had any reasonable expectation of ever playing in a game with a multiaccounter in it, I'd agree with you.

edit: also, is your goal to a)stop multiaccounting or b)to educate fish about it? because I'd rather just skip 'b' and go straight to 'a'.

[Ship Ship McGipp]

you guys think too much about this kind of stuff. let em keep cheating concentrate on improving your game and it'll more than make up for it (this is a serious thing and not directed at anyone in particular in this thread)