EV of calling a preflop 3bet with small/medium pairs

[threads13]

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Is it necessary a crystal ball to limp small pairs?

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Haha, no.

I shouldn't have said anything. I should have known it would start the age old debate. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

A limp is fine here, a raise is fine here. A limp is better here, a raise is better here. We don't have any idea of the table dynamics that would swing in into "usually raise land", therefore the whole thing is open to debate.

Let's not debate though... [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Landlord79]

Open limp- BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DougieG]

Re: open limping v. raising, the issue driving every debate IMO is style. If you open limp hands including SCs, small/med pp's then it's fine, if you don't open limp other hands don't open limp small/medium pp's. In this case, if we KNOW that this villian will r/r our raise and will have AK or a big pp, obv we open limp. Even the guys that open raise all the time (myself included) would probably open limp if we KNEW that this villian would be reraising his AK/big pp.

The point here is addressed by Mack when he says you need to be good enough post flop to play people off their hands occasionally w/o a set. IMO most of the guys that do favor open raising pf as opposed to open limping have enough experience with 3 bet pots (as they tend to be the same players 3 betting light in position) that they can play proficiently post flop.

That isn't me saying those favoring open raising pf are better players. I do feel that it is a better strategy in general and that's why I use it, but I see the other side of the argument and one's style should be more dictated by the dynamics of the table than anything else.

[MyTurn2Raise]

I agree with everything DougieG wrote

I think sometimes we get caught up analyzing hands in a vacuum and not looking at the style, or system, we play

I might due a carpal/tunnel post on playing poker as a system instead of independent hands

[MyTurn2Raise]

often times, tinkering with how you approach a specific situation might have a chaotic effect on the rest of your game

think of a butterfly wings causing a hurricane

[HAL PHIPA]

You guys make poker way to hard.

[MyTurn2Raise]

poker is easy

optimal play is hard

[DougieG]

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I might due a carpal/tunnel post on playing poker as a system instead of independent hands

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Would love to see this since that's been the major difference in my play/approach to the game in the last 3-5 months.

[mack848]

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I bet the Hero wishes he limped now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Even small pair limpers surely open raise them if it is folded to them in the Hijack or CO, no? If they do and the button or blinds 3bet, this this theory applies.

As I said in the original post, this came from a session review I did, where a good player at the $200 level called a 3bet thinking that he had odds for set value. I disagreed, he disagreed with me - and so I did the math.

[threads13]

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I bet the Hero wishes he limped now. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Even small pair limpers surely open raise them if it is folded to them in the Hijack or CO, no?

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I hate to go cliche on ya, but it really does depend.