Club games and their pros and cons.

[jkamowitz]

For the past year, I have successfully played 5-5 and 5-10nl in private clubs as well as low to high buy-in tournaments. I have had success in both but recently have begun to think that these games, once you become a regular, become less profitable. In a casino, you're free to be ruthless, but in these clubs there is an ugly pressure to be the nice guy.
Normally, my strategy is to present a nice guy table image, it lets me get away with some things a jerk can't and people tell me their strategies and secrets.
The club that I currently attend opens its doors 5 days a week at 10am and goes until dawn. This presents a few problems:
1. The players leave and go regularly and in quick succession. They often play for an hour or so and return at night. This means that it is hard to acculate information about their play, as one's playing style and emotions can change frequently.
2. Business is too frequent. I do do business on occasion. But it has unfortunately become taboo to refuse business. The recent fad is when two people go all in they play for what's in the middle of the pot and not what is in front of them. Thus money rarely moves hands.
3. The dealers are to slow. While there are a few club dealers that have excelled beyond expectation, the majority I have come across are incompetant and often unaware of how the game should be played, be it hold 'em, omaha, or stud.

Sure you're going to say, so don't play in clubs play online. The problem is I enjoy live play. My question is how do I exploit these tendencies? This is not a 'we're not friends then' post as I understand that these are not my friends and I should be gutless, but the pressure for business hinders a big win.

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
I have had success in both but recently have begun to think that these games, once you become a regular, become less profitable. In a casino, you're free to be ruthless, but in these clubs there is an ugly pressure to be the nice guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with you completely. The game in which I play has a lot of live straddles. A lot of players do it, but I don't because it's just not profitable. However, it is profitable for me to do it once every ten sessions or so. Of course, a straddle is only 2 big blinds; doing business can cost you hundreds. I would not partake in this, and you might get a rep for not doing it, but the key to playing against regulars is to be the nice guy with words, not in poker.

[F-Train]

Doing business can hurt you in the short run. Over the long run, it changes nothing.

[jba]

"doing business can cost you hundreds. "

???

not to rekindle the age old debate, but "doing business" == running it twice or more, right?

[_TKO_]

[ QUOTE ]
"doing business can cost you hundreds. "

???

not to rekindle the age old debate, but "doing business" == running it twice or more, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that's the meaning of the term as well. However, I was referring more to this:
"The recent fad is when two people go all in they play for what's in the middle of the pot and not what is in front of them."

This kills your implied odds.

[jba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"doing business can cost you hundreds. "

???

not to rekindle the age old debate, but "doing business" == running it twice or more, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that's the meaning of the term as well. However, I was referring more to this:
"The recent fad is when two people go all in they play for what's in the middle of the pot and not what is in front of them."

This kills your implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]


whoa I missed this..

so I go all in you call, I have top set vs. your flush draw... we're only playing for what's already in the pot? wtf??? I don't really get this and it doesn't sound right at all. that is nuts.

[neuroman]

[ QUOTE ]
However, I was referring more to this:
"The recent fad is when two people go all in they play for what's in the middle of the pot and not what is in front of them."

[/ QUOTE ]
Wow, that's horrible. These people should just play freakin' limit.

[GTL]

Your club has disconnect protect at all its nl tables. I neve play at live clubs with DP.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"doing business can cost you hundreds. "

???

not to rekindle the age old debate, but "doing business" == running it twice or more, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that's the meaning of the term as well. However, I was referring more to this:
"The recent fad is when two people go all in they play for what's in the middle of the pot and not what is in front of them."

This kills your implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally i consider this cheating. Lets bet our opponent out of the pot, but then you and me agree that we keep our money from any risk.

Not only would I not agree to this deal, but I would not play anywhere that allowed this deal to be made.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
"doing business can cost you hundreds. "

???

not to rekindle the age old debate, but "doing business" == running it twice or more, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe that's the meaning of the term as well. However, I was referring more to this:
"The recent fad is when two people go all in they play for what's in the middle of the pot and not what is in front of them."

This kills your implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally i consider this cheating. Lets bet our opponent out of the pot, but then you and me agree that we keep our money from any risk.

Not only would I not agree to this deal, but I would not play anywhere that allowed this deal to be made.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sort of thing used to be common. Running it twice (or more) has eliminated most of the other ways of doing business. Doing business refers to anytime the players decide to to something other than just dealing and pushing all the pot to the best hand. It isn't (or wasn't) uncommon for players to decide to keep what they have bet and play for the center if they decide their hands are about even. If a hand is a 2:1 favorite they might want to take back $200 and the other player take back $100 and play for the rest of it.