general question 2 QQ preflop

[jstill]

hero raises 4x villain goes 14x hero does what vs which villains with what stack sizes out of position? if he goes 16x or whatever because hes in the blind (or not) how does that change ur action if at all with the difference in bet size? How does position change things in ur mind?

villain raises to 4x hero goes 14x villain comes over the top with a 4bet.. what do u do and how much does it matter what his 4bet was to? standard would be 40 or so correct? so what do u do with QQ then with 60 behind? How about if effective stacks are greater or smaller? Where are the "cut offs" or thresholds for these factors if u will?

I know these are very broad questions, but they are answerable. Mostly I'm curious about what you guys think different villains ranges are in these spots, generally speaking, and what their ranges are that will call a 4 or 5 bet shove? I think people overestimate how often alot of nits are 4betting AK/ JJ and below or stacking off with it when hero 4 or 5 bets.

U can answer these questions vs a standard tag or a standard weak tight passive or loose passive or lag ect with full stacks if that makes it easier to respond briefly... just a couple examples would be good ie vs this kind of guy u should definitely do this here becuz ect

and maybe more interesting when it becomes somewhat ambiguous or how ur action would be different with say JJ or AK if u say its an easy call or push in certain scenarios or when ud be deep enough to do something else or villains stats were tight enough so u wouldnt stack off.

Obviously this topic has come up a lot in all NL forums and Victor in particular recently. I feel like there are villains whos 4 bet ranges is as small as KK/AA (or atleast QQ JJ AK can be highly discounted to the point where folding for full stacks is easily the best play) when do u know this? Can u know this just from PT stats? Does anyone think players 3betting ranges are tight enough to justify not 4betting (or atleast they ll fold all worse hands when u 4bet, is there enough value in that factor alone to justify the 4bet if they only continue with almost all a range of hands that beats u), i cant imagine folding obviously.

[gregorio]

I don't have any answers, but when I got this hand,I was thinking of Victor's threads and based my play on what has been said. This is like your first example, except I have position on villain. But even with position I don't like playing this if overcard comes and SB bets out 3/4 pot.

I assume I always 4bet QQ here with 100BB stacks, but I don't know what I do if stacks are 150BB+ instead of 100BB. I am planning on calling a push, but I want villain to fold, so I 4-bet a little large.

Blinds: $0.15/$0.25; just sat down, so no reads on SB.
I have $25.40, SB had me covered.

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $1</font>, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $3</font>, BB folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $11</font>, SB folds.

[HedonismBot]

I don't know how crazy 25NL is nowadays but I would just call his raise unless you think he's really loose and will call the 4 bet with lots of hands. I would think a lot of people fold most hands you beat, which you don't want.