best lines: few variations

[jstill]

couple scenarios any different?

full stacks for hero and villain NL50

villain limps, hero raises TT to 2.5, all fold villain calls

flop QT3r villain donks 4 into like 5.5 with 93ish behind

whats heros action, raise now call raise turn?

how much does it matter if the flop is AT3r or either of those with a fd? how about if the flop is even wetter QT9 with a fd? how about TT on T62r or 88 on Q84 ect?

how often do u let ur read dictate ur action here? if so what kind of players do u do what against or what tendencies make u do what (last question seems a bit intuitive but humor me)? HOw about if villains stack is smaller (say half stack)?

now how about those boards with ur hand and villain raised preflop and u just called in position (obviously if u wouldnt just call with TT here vs an open say what u would do with a flopped set with whatever PP u would just call with? how about if u 3bet pre to like 8 from 2 and he donks the flop for half pot/ or full pot? raise flop call flop raise turn what? board texture matter more or less then in the larger pot?

As a side note, Do people in NL on really wet boards with big hands (sets overpairs) just call the donk or c bet to hope for a blank turn or is it always better to raise and try to price out a draw (sometimes I feel like we cant reasonably do that given implied odds/ current pot stack sizes).

Id ask about OOP too but I think I'm pushing it already with material to get many responses... hook a brother up tho with a reply if u got a sec or feel u know what is best definitely... even just answering the first question is better than nothing.

[Jamougha]

The bests don't double on the turn [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] raise now. It looks weaker too.

[jetsetboy]

So many questions

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couple scenarios any different?

full stacks for hero and villain NL50

villain limps, hero raises TT to 2.5, all fold villain calls

flop QT3r villain donks 4 into like 5.5 with 93ish behind

whats heros action, raise now call raise turn?



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I raise here most of the time. In fact I raise also with most of the hand i've raised pf (including 22 or 87s). I'm not a great fan of the line call and bet/raise turn, it is a much stronger line than raise flop. The only exception to this rule is if vilain is a kind of maniac and can fire 3 barrels with ATC but would fold to a raise at any point, then I call both flop and turn and push river (as long as the board don't become too much scary). However if I chose this line I will not fold even on turn A river K.

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how much does it matter if the flop is AT3r or either of those with a fd? how about if the flop is even wetter QT9 with a fd? how about TT on T62r or 88 on Q84 ect?



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The wetter the board, the more likely I am to raise. If vilain has a big combo draw or draw+pair or underset or any two cards he likes he could very well go for a 3betAI here and we will be favorite against his range. However effective stack size must allow a 3bAI (he must be able to think that he has some FE).

Here also against some kind of opponents (the weak ones that don't like to go AI on the flop with a draw and will call the raise on the flop and c/fold turn UI) I might simply call if I know that they will fire turn to and might feel commited after that. Effective stack size is really important here too.

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how often do u let ur read dictate ur action here? if so what kind of players do u do what against or what tendencies make u do what (last question seems a bit intuitive but humor me)?


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Hum 100% of the time if I'm playing my A-game.

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HOw about if villains stack is smaller (say half stack)?

now how about those boards with ur hand and villain raised preflop and u just called in position (obviously if u wouldnt just call with TT here vs an open say what u would do with a flopped set with whatever PP u would just call with? how about if u 3bet pre to like 8 from 2 and he donks the flop for half pot/ or full pot? raise flop call flop raise turn what? board texture matter more or less then in the larger pot?


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3bet pots are completely different. The only question with a set on a 3bet pot is how do I manage to get all the money in, if possible right now on the flop.

Calling a raise is also completely different: If you fast play your draws than you HAVE TO fast play your set on a wet board. However on dry board you can simply call flop and turn and push river but that's really really read dependant (if vilain is usued to fire second/third barrel that's a line I like).

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As a side note, Do people in NL on really wet boards with big hands (sets overpairs) just call the donk or c bet to hope for a blank turn or is it always better to raise and try to price out a draw (sometimes I feel like we cant reasonably do that given implied odds/ current pot stack sizes).

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Raise most of the time.

[jstill]

fwiw Id always raise the flop in limit... I agree that it is weaker to raise now or people call a raise here with a wider range of hands than they ll call a turn raise with, plus u start building the pot to get them pot stuck if they call the turn and tie them in. But whats more EV depends on how often they fold to either raise and u get a bit extra by letting them second barrel, so I guess we are forced to use experience and make an educated deduction (or taylor it to player tendencies) about whats going to get more money in the pot in most occasions.

what do u bump it to 12-13 more less?

more thoughts? if u wait to raise the turn and they bet half pot or pot what do u bump it to? effective stacks would be half pot would leave him about 35 pot would be just under 30.... I messed up in the original post that should say effective stacks 43 not 93 thinking NL100.

[Grunch]

Raise the flop. I'd actually raise fairly small, perhaps making it 10 or so. Raising the flop is better than raising the turn because it's going to take many pumps of the well to get all-in given how deep you are relative to the size of the pot. Start pumping early. You may get a lot of folds from a crap hand that was just trying to win the pot. Don't worry about that. He wasn't putting much more in anyway, so he is not who you are targeting. By the way, keep this idea in mind when you have cold spells and think to yourself "every time I get AA everyone fold, but every time I have crap everyone calls."

As for flop texture. The more coordinated the board, the more you should bet -- both more often and more chips. The reason is because if you raise too little he will not be making a mistkae in calling. Your goal here (and the overall goal in no-limit in fact) is to make your opponent make the largest mistakes possible. Some people like to refer to this as protecting your hand, which is an effect of this approach, but a somewhat simplistic view.

Also regarding flop texture, the more likely the flop is to have hit your opponent, the more often and more chips you should bet. The reason is he is more likely to be willing to overvalue his hand, therefore he is more likely to make a larger mistake.

[James.]

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Raise the flop. I'd actually raise fairly small, perhaps making it 10 or so. Raising the flop is better than raising the turn because it's going to take many pumps of the well to get all-in given how deep you are relative to the size of the pot. Start pumping early. You may get a lot of folds from a crap hand that was just trying to win the pot. Don't worry about that. He wasn't putting much more in anyway, so he is not who you are targeting. By the way, keep this idea in mind when you have cold spells and think to yourself "every time I get AA everyone fold, but every time I have crap everyone calls."

As for flop texture. The more coordinated the board, the more you should bet -- both more often and more chips. The reason is because if you raise too little he will not be making a mistkae in calling. Your goal here (and the overall goal in no-limit in fact) is to make your opponent make the largest mistakes possible. Some people like to refer to this as protecting your hand, which is an effect of this approach, but a somewhat simplistic view.

Also regarding flop texture, the more likely the flop is to have hit your opponent, the more often and more chips you should bet. The reason is he is more likely to be willing to overvalue his hand, therefore he is more likely to make a larger mistake.

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i could probably follow you around and say this, but nice post.