Showing Cards when All in 1/2NL game

Hotrod0823 · #1 11-12-2007, 02:59 PM

I was playing 1/2NL at FW on Friday not and witnessed an interesting situation.

There were 6 players to the flop for 12 each (typical).

Flop comes down QTJ with 2 clubs. Action was heavy on the flop.

SB bets 30, Shorty with 60 behind just calls. Big stack with 500 or so calls, LP pushes for 110. SB repushes for 210. Shorty puts in his 60 and the big stack thinks and asks for the chips to be counted out. As the dealer is seperating/couting stacks big stack is thinking out loud and sitting next to him I think it is obvious he is on a flush draw.

After a short time big stack finally makes the call. There are 3 players allin and the big stack. The allin guys all flip their cards, SB K9x for the flopped straight, Shorty with JT for flopped 2 pair, Big stack who didn't flip over, and the LP pusher with QT for flopped top 2.

The SB says to the big stack "you aren't going to show? I don't need to see they anyway. I'm ahead right now. Don't show me."

Turn and river are bricks, no flushes, no FH and the straight holds.

He is pushed the pot and then some one from across the table says he wants to see the big stacks call. He wasn't in the hand and has asked to see this players cards 2 times already. Big stack has already mucked and dealer was bring the chips to the SB. SB pipes up and claims that now he wants to see the mucked Big stacks cards.

Too late. Cards were gone, irretreivable and player had walked away from the table.

Later the floor happens to be around for a time drop and the player asked if there was no more action did the Big stack have to flip his cards immediately? Did he have to show them at the end of the hand? If it was requested.

Did he have to show them after the action was closed on the flop? What if players still in the hand requested it?

Floor said he only has to show if he wants to win the hand or if someone asks to see the hand. If someone asked to see the hand after flop can they? Do they have to wait until the turn and river are dealt?

Being that the IWSTH has already in my opinion been abused I can understand why he didn't want to show the hand. It was pretty obvious what he had.

Confused [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

IgorSmiles · #2 11-12-2007, 03:19 PM

He doesnt have to show until showdown, unless FW is adopting the Bellagio "amateur hour" rule of turning baby NL into Tourny poker.

ungarop · #3 11-12-2007, 05:56 PM

This isn't a tournament. Big Stack does not have to show his hand immediately when calling the all-in on the flop, even if asked.

After the river if the Big Stack wants to claim the pot he/she will have to show the hand (as indicated by the floor).

If someone in the hand invokes IWTSTH, then he is required to show the hand (by rule).

Since IWTSTH has been used before, I call the floor while protecting my hand and ask who they think I am colluding with. If the floor rules I have to show my hand, I show.

If IWTSTH had not yet been used, I ask the player who they think I am colluding with, and then show my hand. The second time, it is in the muck before I show. The third time I call the floor. Unless it is a great game, I've likely changed tables after the first time if I recognize there's an IWTSTH nit that's going to put me on uber-tilt.

gongshow · #4 11-12-2007, 06:29 PM

u never have to show ur hand unless u want to win the pot, if some1 requests to see ur cards at showdown, aslong as they hit the muck the dealer may not retrieve them. however if u just push them forward as to fold without tossing them into the muck only then may the hand me shown

IgorSmiles · #5 11-12-2007, 06:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Since IWTSTH has been used before, I call the floor while protecting my hand and ask who they think I am colluding with. If the floor rules I have to show my hand, I show.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will be asked to show, and youre just slowing the game down and being annoying like the guy asking. Best bet is to show and move on.

RR · #6 11-12-2007, 06:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Since IWTSTH has been used before, I call the floor while protecting my hand and ask who they think I am colluding with. If the floor rules I have to show my hand, I show.

[/ QUOTE ]

You will be asked to show, and youre just slowing the game down and being annoying like the guy asking. Best bet is to show and move on.

[/ QUOTE ]

He is fine. Even in places that allow IWTSTH the floor recognizes that it is a privilege that can be taken away when abused.

IgorSmiles · #7 11-12-2007, 06:58 PM

Great. So the entire game must come to a screeching halt as The Great Poker Crusader calls the floor: His self appointed mission…to educate and change the poker world…one A-hole at a time…..

97% of the time, it just isn’t worth it. the other 3%, when someone is really abusing it and slowing down the game, then call the floor. Even then, you don’t need to protect your hand and make everyone sit around as you prove your point.

TheStation · #8 11-12-2007, 07:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If IWTSTH had not yet been used, I ask the player who they think I am colluding with, and then show my hand. The second time, it is in the muck before I show. The third time I call the floor. Unless it is a great game, I've likely changed tables after the first time if I recognize there's an IWTSTH nit that's going to put me on uber-tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am the same as you... I refuse to go back to LA and play again for this reason, I will stick to good midwest casinos where you rarely see it

RR · #9 11-12-2007, 07:10 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If IWTSTH had not yet been used, I ask the player who they think I am colluding with, and then show my hand. The second time, it is in the muck before I show. The third time I call the floor. Unless it is a great game, I've likely changed tables after the first time if I recognize there's an IWTSTH nit that's going to put me on uber-tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am the same as you... I refuse to go back to LA and play again for this reason, I will stick to good midwest casinos where you rarely see it

[/ QUOTE ]

hrmmm, I have seen it abused more in the midwest than in the west. Of course this could be related to knowing the floor in places where I play and getting them to take care of a problem before it gets out of hand.

FireStorm · #10 11-12-2007, 07:20 PM

People should simply show their hands and move on. As a live player this is the thing I hate the most. Nothing in Hold em other then stupid conversations hold the game up more then people not wanting to show cards (this occurs in various forms - arguments over who shows first, invoking the IWTSTH rule, etc, etc). Show the hand and move on. If it's obvious you've lost, turbomuck and move on. For those of you rules nits who think that you shouldn't be giving away free information, let me ask, what information would the big stack be giving away here? He very clearly has a big draw or a marginal hand (pair+draw). This should be obvious to anyone with a brain, he clearly isn't thinking with sets, K9, or 98. Game is helped here if the hands are simply shown and thats that.