Reverse Implies Odds

[D_Lonnigan]

Can anyone please explain what reverse implied odds are? Thanks.

[bigmac366]

its when you have a hand that is likely to be best..... but has little possiblility to improve. such as AJo on an A94 board and u cold called a raise pf. sorry im drunk

[liquidshwartz]

I don't believe that is a clear example of what reverse implied odds are.

Reverse implied odds is the reverse of implied odds, and implied odds is not the amount of money that is in the pot that is making you call, but the potential of making more money from your opponent.

Hence, an example of an implied odds hand is calling 100 in a pot of 200 on a double-belly buster straight draw because you believe your opponent has AA and he will pay you off handsomely if you hit (thus the odds of the pot is perhaps his whole stack).

So reverse implied odds is something that you will lose a lot of money on if you hit. Perhaps a small flush draw vs 4 opponents (if you hit you could lose a lot of money to a higher flush), or perhaps calling on the flop with AKo on a board of 64T, if you hit your A or K, someone might make 2 pair with As or Ks up, hence you again will lose a lot of money if you make your hand.

[maverickai]

you have theory of poker by Sklansky? Turn to page 59. : )

[jcl]

[ QUOTE ]
So reverse implied odds is something that you will lose a lot of money on if you hit. Perhaps a small flush draw vs 4 opponents (if you hit you could lose a lot of money to a higher flush), or perhaps calling on the flop with AKo on a board of 64T, if you hit your A or K, someone might make 2 pair with As or Ks up, hence you again will lose a lot of money if you make your hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats not what it is either. reverse implied odds is the situation where you'll either lose a big pot or win a small one. it usually occurs when ur out of position and hence y ppl emphasise to always play in position if possible.

Example: you call a raise against the button in the bb with 87s. the flop comes 832. you check and he bets. now you obviously have to call but you have put yourself in a bad situation. you'll either face three barrels and pay off an overpair (i.e. lose a big pot) OR you're opponent will simply switch off and you'll get nothing more than his c-bet. You can't exactly lead out of position on the turn or river and expect to get paid off by a worse hand here. so basically ur preflop call leads u to win one small bet postflop or lose three (increasingly larger) bets.

[MoonOrb]

Jcl's got it. In a reverse implied odds situation, you have a hand that might be best at the moment but (1) it's marginal at best and (2) doesn't stand to improve much.

His example of 87 on an 832 flop is a good one since it's TPWK and only 5 outs to improve. A slightly more extreme example would be 93 on a flop of 955.

The other component on reverse implied odds is that your opponent bets into you, and you are likely to win the minimum from your opponent if you are ahead, but you'll lose the maximum from your opponent if you're behind. This is because once you've called your opponent's bet, if he has no hand, he'll stop putting money into the pot. But if he's ahead, he'll keep betting.

[Mase31683]

Wow, okay, I have my Sklansky book right here, so I'll try to clarify this for everyone. BigMac was sort of correct.

Implied odds are of course the ability to win extra bets if you hit your hand, meaning you can for example call with a flush draw and 3:1 odds because you'll likely get that 4th bet from your opponent.

Just the opposite (of implied odds) occurs when you have a weak made hand; the future betting frequently costs you, and you must deal with "reverse implied odds." Sometimes reverse implied odds can turn a hand that looks profitable (according to pot odds) into a loser. This happens when
1.The pot is small
2.You're still on preflop or flop betting rounds, leaving several big bets to go before showdown.
3.You have a weak made hand that may be best now, but is easy to draw out on.

[jcl]

I don't think that reverse implied odds have anything to do with implied odds, especially it being 'implied odds for your opponent'. If that were true a hand like AA would be a good candidate for reverse implied odds since from your opponent's perspective they have a lot of implied odds to stack you if they hit a set while they won't lose a lot if they miss. This isn't what the term means as far as I understand it.

Similarly, I don't think it depends on the number of outs you have because then it becomes a pot odds/implied odds problem not a reverse implied odds problem.

[Mase31683]

Yeah, jcl, I wrote that incorrectly. Edited that.

[liquidshwartz]

Actually, I believe reverse implied odds are exactly in direct opposite relation to implied odds. I guess it depends on how you want to name things, but the AA example is right on.

Watch HSP in seasons 1 and 2 where Negreanu calls a big raise preflop knowing the person has a big hand like AA with like 75s, because you get the right flop you take the person's stack...this is also the reason why so many people/donks play rags online and call to a big raise, since so many people overplay AA and KK.