Set. Flush card falls on turn. NO FEAR!!!

[Guy McSucker]

UTG is not completely terrible but a bit too loose and probably too aggressive when he has some kind of hand.

So he raises, I threebet J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] from the CO, and we take the flop.

Flop is Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and he check-calls

Turn is 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], he check-raises.

Are we threebetting?

On the one hand, there aren't that many decent club combos he could have raised preflop since he is fairly sane on that street. On the other hand he can see the three clubs as well as I can so his check-raise has to be given some credit. Obviously it could be bluff credit.

Threebet for value against worse made hands and hands with the A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] etc? Or call down barring a paired board?

[NinaWilliams]

I think there are a lot of flushes he could have. 89 T9 J9 JT KT K9 Ax. I just call down unless I have a read that he does this with a queen or on a semibluff often.

[sweetjazz]

Just call down unless you have a read that he frequently raises for value here with weak hands that he can't fold. Otherwise, you get the same amount when you're against draws that don't hit (2 BB) and lose less he has the goods or his nut flush draw / gutshot comes in on the river.

In other words, the default play is to just call down, but you can adjust your line to 3betting if the villain shows himself to be overaggressive in his turn check/raises and willing to show down light.

[jba]

imo:

call down ui > call turn raise non-club river > 3bet turn

[Oink]

What am I missing?

Board: Qc Jd 3c 6c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 72.777% 72.78% 00.00% 1473 0.00 { JcJh }
Hand 1: 27.223% 27.22% 00.00% 551 0.00 { 66, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, KQs, KcTc, Kc9c, QJs, Tc9c, 9c8c, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AdKc, AhKc, AsKc, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AcJd, AcJh, AcJs, AcTd, AcTh, AcTs, AdTc, AhTc, AsTc, Ac9d, Ac9h, Ac9s, Ac8d, Ac8h, Ac8s, Ad8h, Ad8s, Ah8s, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs, KcJd, KcJh, KcJs }


---


This is a standard 3-bet IMO. You have such huge redraws and he is doing this with all sorts of combo hands.


Edit: I made a few mistakes in the hand range. New stove:


Board: Qc Jd 3c 6c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 71.539% 71.54% 00.00% 1385 0.00 { JcJh }
Hand 1: 28.461% 28.46% 00.00% 551 0.00 { 66, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, KQs, KcTc, Kc9c, QJs, Tc9c, 9c8c, AcKd, AcKh, AcKs, AdKc, AhKc, AsKc, AcQd, AcQh, AcQs, AcJd, AcJh, AcJs, AcTd, AcTh, AcTs, AdTc, AhTc, AsTc, Ac9d, Ac9h, Ac9s, Ac8d, Ac8h, Ac8s, As8c, KcQd, KcQh, KcQs, KcJd, KcJh, KcJs }


---

[milesdyson]

im not gonna look through all that, but did you discount any queens or nut fd turn semibluff c/raises? i see like AcTd in there, which is pretty lol. also AsKc, KcJd, Ac8d, etc.

[Oink]

I thought about those hands but with the description of villain that Guy gave I figured he could have those.

So maybe Ac8x and Ac9x is giving him too little credit. But KcJx is definetely in his range no? AcTd makes plenty of sense with the description.

I also think that flushes should be discounted since he didnt raise the flop. Unfortunately I cant discount them further [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

BTW, I took in made flushes, likely high card flush draws and combo hands with a high club and a pair. Oh and QJs

[jba]

- what miles said
- we are laying 2-1 on made flushes vs. semibluffs... he's always 3betting flushes here
- you gain nothing by 3betting now and having him check/fold on the river if he would have kept betting

[Gurravasa]

Given your reads I would 3-bet. Why bother to get reads if we don't use them?

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
- you gain nothing by 3betting now and having him check/fold on the river if he would have kept betting

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point...