the freeze play........

bigmac366 · #1 10-16-2007, 09:42 PM

the new d&b shorthanded book described a play called the freeze play. basically its a free showdown raise, for your weak made hand, but also a semi-bluff raise for your strong draw. their logic is that your raise "freezes" your opponent and the likely wont reraise you unless they are very strong, and if this occurs its not nearly as devastating as a free showdown raise backfiring because of your strong draw as well. the authors claim you may fold a slightly stronger hand than your current weak made hand(like K6o or 55) in the hand below. the example used in the book was similar to this hand, but not quite identical(flop action was identical, capping vs an villian in the blinds with just the draw, and turning bottom pair)

ive never seen this discussed here before, so i'm wondering if, and underwhat circumstances you use this play, if you think it is +ev or not. you can critique the hand if you like, but its mostly just here for example purposes.

thanks

Full Tilt 0.50/1 Hold'em (6 handed) Full Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises

istewart · #2 10-16-2007, 09:53 PM

True, he won't reraise you unless he's very strong. But he just capped the flop HU in a limped pot. Since you have the NFD, I'd say he's either bonkers or very strong.

istewart · #3 10-16-2007, 09:55 PM

The problem with this freeze play with a made weak hand coupled with a strong draw is that since you are made, Villain will not fold better, and you hurt your own implied odds by denying him the opportunity to bet the river.

bigmac366 · #4 10-16-2007, 09:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But he just capped the flop HU in a limped pot

[/ QUOTE ]

doesnt matter much, but pot wasnt limped. i open raised.

milesdyson · #5 10-16-2007, 09:59 PM

no one is folding a better hand. even if he were aggressive enough to cap the flop here with K6, he has made the pot big enough now that he's gonna see your cards. so... big deal if you freeze up 88 or A7. you can already showdown vs. these hands for two bets and have the option of raising good rivers.

also i just call down from the flop.

istewart · #6 10-16-2007, 10:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But he just capped the flop HU in a limped pot

[/ QUOTE ]

doesnt matter much, but pot wasnt limped. i open raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK this actually matters a bit but I still agree with my line.

bigmac366 · #7 10-16-2007, 10:06 PM

so do you believe there is any merit to this play at micro/small stakes games?

RudeboyOi · #8 10-16-2007, 10:06 PM

the pot is now bloated
since you 3b the flop and he capped
you have zero FE on the turn so just call

if you play a decent amount of good hands
such as an overpair or a set here on this board

by just b/c the flop and then raising the turn

you can make this move
the pot will be small enough
where he can fold a better hand

and if you get 3b
you have the odds to call and improve

and if he just calls
you can play it as if its a FSDR

milesdyson · #9 10-16-2007, 10:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
so do you believe there is any merit to this play at micro/small stakes games?

[/ QUOTE ]
well the play relies on people making heroic turn folds of pairs in massive pots. this doesn't happen, so no there's no merit. plus flop caps in micro/small stakes means a much smaller, stronger range, so you're in even worse shape vs. a flop cap here than you are at 10/20.

sethypooh21 · #10 10-16-2007, 11:00 PM

If you had only called the flop, freezeplaying the turn makes sense. Without a read, 3b flop and raising the turn here is spewy.