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  #21  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:02 PM
jesse8888 jesse8888 is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

I have a question: technically speaking, doesn't this procedure give his opponent a slight advantage? For example, suppose there is a 2 flush on board and the "fake" turn card completes it? He now knows that the odds of the flush completing on the turn are actually a little lower than usual because one of the flush cards is not eligible to come out on the turn. Or even worse, suppose his opponent holds an UI pocket pair, and the fake turn would have spiked him a set? Now he knows that card is not coming on the turn....
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  #22  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:07 PM
budblown budblown is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question: technically speaking, doesn't this procedure give his opponent a slight advantage? For example, suppose there is a 2 flush on board and the "fake" turn card completes it? He now knows that the odds of the flush completing on the turn are actually a little lower than usual because one of the flush cards is not eligible to come out on the turn. Or even worse, suppose his opponent holds an UI pocket pair, and the fake turn would have spiked him a set? Now he knows that card is not coming on the turn....

[/ QUOTE ]

but it is shuffled back in for the river.
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  #23  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:08 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps I'm being childish

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yes, i agree.

PS: This is the type of tip[ping thread which we wont allow. Your free to make your own decisions here, its not cool to ask B&m their opinion if you already decided not to tip.

[/ QUOTE ]

woops, I forgot to lock it before. Oh well, too late. thread lives!
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  #24  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:21 PM
cjk73 cjk73 is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question: technically speaking, doesn't this procedure give his opponent a slight advantage? For example, suppose there is a 2 flush on board and the "fake" turn card completes it? He now knows that the odds of the flush completing on the turn are actually a little lower than usual because one of the flush cards is not eligible to come out on the turn. Or even worse, suppose his opponent holds an UI pocket pair, and the fake turn would have spiked him a set? Now he knows that card is not coming on the turn....

[/ QUOTE ]

but it is shuffled back in for the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


But it can ONLY come on the river. "1 out twice" is better then "1 out once".

The card room's procedure is what is retarded, if I read it correctly. There should be a chance for the mis dealt turn to be the same card, by dealing the would be river as the turn and THEN re-shuffling is beyond retarded. If you are going to enforce killing an exposed board card (also dumb) then you darn well better shuffle it back in before re-dealing the turn.

Wow, what an awful procedure.
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  #25  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:33 PM
onoble onoble is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

Negligence action requires proof of:

1) existence of duty
2) breach of duty
3) causation
4) damages

1) Does the dealer have a duty to deal properly, yes.

2) Did he breach that duty? yes

3) Did his breach of duty cause you harm. This is not as clear cut based on the circumstances and you can certainly make the argument either way.

4)Was their damage? yea $1800.

... So think you should sue if feel so deprived.

I think you are being irrational because poker is a game of risks. Unlike other games you can make all the right moves and still lose, this is an example of that. The dealer gave you a bad beat of sorts.

Do you also not tip when a dealer burns and turns a card that lets your opponents draw get there? Cause its really the same thing.
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  #26  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:06 PM
zepthiir zepthiir is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doctor amputates your left leg instead of removing your third nipple and his insurance pays the settlement and he keeps on doing operating. When was the last time you heard of an airline pilot having to reimburse everyone for an airplane crash?


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Your analogy is flawed, in the case of the doctor it most certainly IS the doctor who is accountable and required to pay any compensation. The fact he has insurance and makes a claim to them to cover that compensation is irrelevant because if he had no insurance he would be paying out of his own pocket.

Exactly how many jobs out there are there where nobody makes a mistake. or where if you make a mistake your pay is docked.

Doctor amputates your left leg instead of removing your third nipple and his insurance pays the settlement and he keeps on doing operating. When was the last time you heard of an airline pilot having to reimburse everyone for an airplane crash?

This dealer made a mistake, which was as likely to help you as it was to hurt you and you want him to be paying yopu back because you ended up losing the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
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  #27  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:46 PM
grando grando is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

whoever says they wouldn't be pissed off is lying
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  #28  
Old 11-28-2007, 10:40 PM
frommagio frommagio is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question: technically speaking, doesn't this procedure give his opponent a slight advantage? For example, suppose there is a 2 flush on board and the "fake" turn card completes it? He now knows that the odds of the flush completing on the turn are actually a little lower than usual because one of the flush cards is not eligible to come out on the turn. Or even worse, suppose his opponent holds an UI pocket pair, and the fake turn would have spiked him a set? Now he knows that card is not coming on the turn....

[/ QUOTE ]

but it is shuffled back in for the river.

[/ QUOTE ]


But it can ONLY come on the river. "1 out twice" is better then "1 out once".

The card room's procedure is what is retarded, if I read it correctly. There should be a chance for the mis dealt turn to be the same card, by dealing the would be river as the turn and THEN re-shuffling is beyond retarded. If you are going to enforce killing an exposed board card (also dumb) then you darn well better shuffle it back in before re-dealing the turn.

Wow, what an awful procedure.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, this analysis is wrong. The all-in decision was made with three cards showing and two to come, just as would be the case had no error occurred. The original river card (the same actual physical card) has been moved to the turn - so obviously, no change there. The random turn card becomes a random river card. No change there, despite the fact that a random card was flashed.

I think your error is the fallacy that "it can only come on the river", so that somehow it's different. Not so, as the order doesn't matter. The reality is that there are two slots, and one is already filled - by the exact same physical card that would have filled a slot no matter what. And the other slot is filled by a random card. The order doesn't matter. That's the accurate analysis.

The procedure is 100% fair, and there really is no legitimate basis for complaint.
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  #29  
Old 11-28-2007, 11:03 PM
jjshabado jjshabado is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

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[ QUOTE ]
As a professional poker player, EVERY mistake I make costs me money.

[/ QUOTE ]

not so

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree. Clearly OP doesn't know much about poker. I make mistakes and make money all the time (but I'm bad at poker). Every mistake costs you *theoretical* money, but since OP doesn't understand the concept of theoretical money (as evidenced by claiming the dealer cost him $1800) I don't think thats what he meant.
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  #30  
Old 11-28-2007, 11:23 PM
Photoc Photoc is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

[ QUOTE ]
Every mistake costs you *theoretical* money,

[/ QUOTE ]

Around here we call this Sklansky bucks and they're almost like real moneyzzz!

As to the OP, he's definately not a "pro", unless you mean a pro in the sense that Sammy "take it out on the dealer" Farha is a pro too, then yes, it makes sense.
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