|
|
#11
09-22-2007, 06:42 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Re: TPTK + NFD = Problems
It really seems like a lot of the time people will say "lead the turn" even when the pot is completely massive and multiway, like you can just lead here and fold. I think that is just ridic. The first thing I look at is:
how much we have left behind: about $40. Then, the size of the pot on the turn: $22.50 The size of a reasonable lead here would be $15 - $18, which would leave us with $25 behind with the pot at around $40, before anyone else put any money in. In other words, TOTALLY COMMITTED. So the question is not whether you want to lead the turn, because lead-folding would be just the most ridiculous thing ever. The question is if you want to stack off or not. If you do, b3bai. If you dont, check fold. To my mind, we have 9 outs on this turn so its a pretty easy fold for me. We have one pair and are certainly behind, IMO we are never ahead here. If villain has 2pr, which I seriously doubt, we have 14 outs, making us a 2.3:1 dog. We are getting like 1.8:1 here so its a pretty easy fold, but I'm more concerned about the people who want to lead then fold - I assume that if you are leading then you're calling AI, yeah? That poses another problem, of the hands that he will raise on this turn, what are we ahead of? AQ? 
|
|
#12
09-22-2007, 06:43 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: TPTK + NFD = Problems
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] i lead turn here like everytime. but as played i think it is pretty close. i prolly sigh and call since they r avg donks at 50nl [/ QUOTE ] My biggest question here is the turn check... I normally lead, and I'm not sure which is better. [/ QUOTE ] leading is much much better we have a monster [/ QUOTE ] lol?
|
|
#13
09-22-2007, 06:57 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: TPTK + NFD = Problems
[ QUOTE ]
It really seems like a lot of the time people will say "lead the turn" even when the pot is completely massive and multiway, like you can just lead here and fold. I think that is just ridic. The first thing I look at is: how much we have left behind: about $40. Then, the size of the pot on the turn: $22.50 The size of a reasonable lead here would be $15 - $18, which would leave us with $25 behind with the pot at around $40, before anyone else put any money in. In other words, TOTALLY COMMITTED. So the question is not whether you want to lead the turn, because lead-folding would be just the most ridiculous thing ever. The question is if you want to stack off or not. If you do, b3bai. If you dont, check fold. To my mind, we have 9 outs on this turn so its a pretty easy fold for me. We have one pair and are certainly behind, IMO we are never ahead here. If villain has 2pr, which I seriously doubt, we have 14 outs, making us a 2.3:1 dog. We are getting like 1.8:1 here so its a pretty easy fold, but I'm more concerned about the people who want to lead then fold - I assume that if you are leading then you're calling AI, yeah? That poses another problem, of the hands that he will raise on this turn, what are we ahead of? AQ? [/ QUOTE ] Definately leading the turn commits us. I will agree with that. The problem here is that leading overvalues our hand, and c/fing undervalues our hand. This is just one of those crappy situations where being OOP screws everything more than usual. I want to maximize my EV against both of their complete ranges and I feel that my showdown value is high enough right now to put more money in there. Very often one villian will have a FD and the other a weak ace and so on. The few times we get shoved on we have at least 9 outs. maybe a few more.
|
|
#18
09-22-2007, 11:53 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: TPTK + NFD = Problems
[ QUOTE ]
It really seems like a lot of the time people will say "lead the turn" even when the pot is completely massive and multiway, like you can just lead here and fold. I think that is just ridic. The first thing I look at is: how much we have left behind: about $40. Then, the size of the pot on the turn: $22.50 The size of a reasonable lead here would be $15 - $18, which would leave us with $25 behind with the pot at around $40, before anyone else put any money in. In other words, TOTALLY COMMITTED. So the question is not whether you want to lead the turn, because lead-folding would be just the most ridiculous thing ever. The question is if you want to stack off or not. If you do, b3bai. If you dont, check fold. To my mind, we have 9 outs on this turn so its a pretty easy fold for me. We have one pair and are certainly behind, IMO we are never ahead here. If villain has 2pr, which I seriously doubt, we have 14 outs, making us a 2.3:1 dog. We are getting like 1.8:1 here so its a pretty easy fold, but I'm more concerned about the people who want to lead then fold - I assume that if you are leading then you're calling AI, yeah? That poses another problem, of the hands that he will raise on this turn, what are we ahead of? AQ? [/ QUOTE ]im willing to commit on the turn. but image would b [censored] at the table thus villians range would b much wider. against to random unknowns i am willing to get it in on this turn
|
|
#19
09-22-2007, 12:00 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: TPTK + NFD = Problems
[ QUOTE ]
like you can just lead here and fold. [/ QUOTE ] who said anything about folding? our hand is a monster up to this turn. we are like in very good shape vs 2 villains ranges. [ QUOTE ] The size of a reasonable lead here would be $15 - $18...In other words, TOTALLY COMMITTED. [/ QUOTE ] yes. [ QUOTE ] because lead-folding would be just the most ridiculous thing ever [/ QUOTE ] yeah [ QUOTE ] If you do, b3bai. If you dont, check fold. [/ QUOTE ] yeah. In this spot it seems that betting out and getting is all in is good [ QUOTE ] lol? [/ QUOTE ] you dont think our hand is in great shape on this turn? edit : also raise .50 more preflop
|
|
#20
09-22-2007, 12:22 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: TPTK + NFD = Problems
PF good
Flop - I like to lead here a bit more. Turn - I'm pretty aggr. so I will lead here to get paid by AJ, AQ, AT...etc and other possible FD's I understand that leading the turn commits us but judging from action you might get 3-way AI with the NFD and that's not bad.
|
 |
|
|
14/14) ---> 3.285:1
Linear Mode
