QT flops 2 pair vs 2 donks

[prodonkey]

Ok the guy right behind me is 33/12/2.25, guy who min raised is 50/17/4 and had been min raising every bet so I really wasn't too concerned with that.

What's the play here? Reraise the min raise to isolate? I really hate just calling here.


Full Tilt Poker, $0.25/$0.50 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LegoPoker Hand History Converter

BTN: $81.20
SB: $53.15
BB: $20.85
UTG: $90.10
Hero (MP): $51.80
CO: $43.10

Pre-Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q dealt to Hero (MP)
UTG folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2</font>, CO calls $2, BTN calls $2, SB folds, BB calls $1.50

Flop: ($8.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 Players)
BB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $6</font>, CO calls $6, <font color="red">BTN raises to $12</font>, BB folds, Hero ????

[traz]

I pretty much just shove and hope i'm not pwned

[prodonkey]

haha that was my exact thinking

What kind of range can we put CO on here?

[traz]

The only thing i can conclude about CO is that he sucks. Calling pf and then calling this flop is just ugly no matter what he has, possibly with the exception of 89, which is still pretty bad.

So in short, I don't know...but given that I know he's bad, I'm ok with shoving and expecting him to have not-so-good hands more than enough. He seems like the kind of player who could be calling with Q9 or something like that.

[NL Newbie]

rereaise.

We'll see KQ, KJ, KT, JT, T9 alot here IMO.

Dont be a hating on the variance though [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Lostit]

Am I the only one here who is scared to death of the CO in this spot?

He plays a little loose, but he has to have some idea that calling behind for $6 in a 4-way pot, on a draw heavy board, with a known min-raiser still to come, is going to get him deep into a large multi-way pot.

I give credit to the idea that the min-raise is a standard move for the button, so I'm not gonna be too concerned with him.

Can you fold here? Not yet.
So its either raise or call.

A min-raise back puts you at $18, so thats the least we can bet.

A shove is an additional $43, so thats the range for us to bet.

What am I afraid of? AK, 98, QQ, JJ, 10 10, or QJ.
Since you were the preflop raiser and only got called behind, I'd say AK, QQ, &amp; JJ are probably out due to the preflop action. So, realistically, hands that worry you are 10 10, QJ, &amp; 98. There are then draws like Qx, J10, KQ, 10 9, AQ, AJ, &amp; A 10 (I'm sure there are more) that you need to stop.

Most of those draws have 8 outs, so you need to charge more than 5-1 per street, or 3-1 all in to stop them. As a result I like a raise to $25 here and a fold to a push by the CO. A push by the button is something I might call however.

Here's how the math plays out to the CO, and why I like $25.
To the CO, there would be $51 in the pot, and cost him $18 to call, costing him approx 3-1 for one card, or if he pushes, and gets of odds of 3-1 to hit by the river, he would need both you and the button to call which is unlikely.

Basically the $25 bet forces him to define his hand or make a mistake.

[dogo]

You forgot one thing in your math!

When you raise to $25 and get a caller the pot pot will be either $64 or $70 (in case both call the pot will be $83). Then you are nearly pot comitted in any case with your ~$24 behind!

[Lostit]

[ QUOTE ]
You forgot one thing in your math!

When you raise to $25 and get a caller the pot pot will be either $64 or $70 (in case both call the pot will be $83). Then you are nearly pot comitted in any case with your ~$24 behind!


[/ QUOTE ]

I hear that, but if you get re-raised all in, its fair to say that your 2-pair is behind and you have 4 outs at best. At best, you're a 16% chance to draw back out by the river, so you're looking for 6-1 odds with your remaining $24. Even if all 3 players go all in, you're not quite there yet. You need a lot of variables to line up here for you to be break even on putting in the rest of your money.

If you bet more than $25, then you leave less behind and you are in that case committed and you'd be correct.

This is another good reason why I think the $25 is the best bet in this spot.