Razz - playing the smooth hand

[Praxising]

OK, have at me. I know the guy in Seat 8 looks like he must have A32, but he was playing real junk and thought a 9 was a hand. And I only reraised him on 3rd to get the 8 to fold. Which, of course, he didn't, because he thought a 9 was a hand, also.

Razz ($0.50/$1.00), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls___calls___calls
Seat 7: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___raises

4th Street - (13.30 SB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 6: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (7.65 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises___raises
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls

6th Street - (15.65 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls

River - (17.65 BB)

Hero: 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___bets
Seat 8: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___calls $0.60 and is all-in

[disco_stu1978]

umm....maybe I play razz really really poorly....but shouldn't there be a lot less bets in this hand?

I prob call 3rd, call the re-raise on 5th and the rest looks fine to me.

[Mathew82]

I do not like third street AT ALL. Hands like 567 vs 8A2 - the 8A2 usually becomes a favourite over 567 in a multiway pot even though is an underdog heads up. I don't mind the original raise but with this ante structure, I would of leaned more towards limping and calling.

Fourth street is a call because of all the bets that went in on third. However you would still call but it would be more marginal if you had played the hand rationally at third.

Fifth street is bad. The action on third suggests even a poor player would have a good starting hand. There are two 2s out and also two 8s out - meaning that he is extremely unlikely to be paired and your now pumping the pot with the worst of it.

6th street, you get a lucky break and you improve and he finds the last eight to pair his hand. Your now favourite, so betting is correct.

7th - you don't improve, perhaps he has but he's going to call with the 8 lo anyways for the reduced price of 60c so the bet is correct.

[roggles]

Absolutely awful. Bad players get good cards too you know. No matter how bad he is, he probably isn't raising without three cards smaller than 6. This whole hand looks like massive tilt on your part.

Also, raising to isolate isn't that important in Razz; it's not draw

[OLDMONGOO$E]

[ QUOTE ]
I do not like third street AT ALL. Hands like 567 vs 8A2 - the 8A2 usually becomes a favourite over 567 in a multiway pot even though is an underdog heads up. I don't mind the original raise but with this ante structure, I would of leaned more towards limping and calling.

Fourth street is a call because of all the bets that went in on third. However you would still call but it would be more marginal if you had played the hand rationally at third.

Fifth street is bad. The action on third suggests even a poor player would have a good starting hand. There are two 2s out and also two 8s out - meaning that he is extremely unlikely to be paired and your now pumping the pot with the worst of it.

6th street, you get a lucky break and you improve and he finds the last eight to pair his hand. Your now favourite, so betting is correct.

7th - you don't improve, perhaps he has but he's going to call with the 8 lo anyways for the reduced price of 60c so the bet is correct.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post, you took the words outta my mouth...

[Andy B]

[ QUOTE ]
Bad players get good cards too you know.

[/ QUOTE ]

You put in too much action on third and fifth.

[RustyBrooks]

Fifth especially looks bad there. A single raise can be good since people often bet when their board looks good. When he re-raises he says he can beat an 86, and you don't have even that.

[betgo]

Do you realize how dead your cards are? I would fold to the reraise on 3rd. Definately don't reraise. You are a big dog to the 3, who probably has a wheel draw or 6 draw, and is much more live. You are also a dog to the 8, who probably has two wheel cards and is a lot more live.

Incidently, I would open limp this hand, although I know 5 people will tell me it is a donk play, and maybe fold to a complete, or maybe just open fold.

You are not paying enough attention to whether your cards are live.

[ChipsAhoya]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you realize how dead your cards are? I would fold to the reraise on 3rd. Definately don't reraise. You are a big dog to the 3, who probably has a wheel draw or 6 draw, and is much more live. You are also a dog to the 8, who probably has two wheel cards and is a lot more live.

Incidently, I would open limp this hand, although I know 5 people will tell me it is a donk play, and maybe fold to a complete, or maybe just open fold.

You are not paying enough attention to whether your cards are live.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can't resist open raising this even in the no-ante stars game. If the 7 was showing I actually would also open limp. <gasp>

You can't 3-bet to isolate here because the 8 isn't that far behind you and you'll get repopped by the 3 probably sometimes people fold here but this isn't the time to try it.

Again, the dead cards are huge here. It is super unlikely that he paired the two and of course the 8. You definitely can't raise 5th because it's pretty impossible for you to be ahead here and he will punish you. Even if he caught like a 5 here or something and you think he paired you still can't raise because he either has you drawing dead or if paired he is still probably slightly ahead of you.

-ChipsAhoya

[ChipsAhoya]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, raising to isolate isn't that important in Razz; it's not draw

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not true at all, raising to isolate is SUPER important in Razz. TT, one of the more weak-tight players on the forum (by admission and jest), routinely advocates raising to isolate hands that are weaker then those he advocates just calling when isolation isn't a factor. You want people OUT of your pot in razz.

-ChipsAhoya