QQ nl50 bet river?? - Page 3

wslee00 · #21 10-29-2007, 03:54 PM

kurto - true he's pretty tight preflop, but the fact
1) we checked the turn
2) his aggression factor is 5

tells me that I have to bet here to get some value from a T (which he will call since we checked the turn)

Profish2285 · #22 10-29-2007, 03:57 PM

If you disagree with my assessment, then why? I acknowledge that we must bet here, especially after checking turn. His AF does not indicate any ace. I said it is unlikely he will have an ace. Where is this wrong?

kurto · #23 10-29-2007, 04:31 PM

If there are no more strong opinions, I'm curious to hear the results. If people don't want it posted, please pm results to me. I'm curious.

ScarfaceGER · #24 10-29-2007, 05:02 PM

ok thx for all the answers!! very interesting! And in fact that everybody talked about the play on the river I think it is very close. I chose the passiv one:

OnGame's Room No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (5 handed) by Hand Converter CG

saw flop|saw showdown

MP ($64.30)
Button ($49.25)
SB ($27.85)
BB ($47.70)
Hero ($49.10)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises to $2, MP folds, Button folds, SB calls $1.75, BB folds.

Flop: ($4.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, SB calls $3.

Turn: ($10.50) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: ($10.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $10.50
Main Pot: $10.50, between SB and Hero. > Pot won by SB ($10.50).

Results in white below: 
Hero has Qd Qh (two pair, aces and queens).
SB has Ad Kd (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: SB wins $10.50.

Profish2285 · #25 10-29-2007, 05:11 PM

Despite results, I just dont understand why villain has any reason to believe checking river is correct. He cant even know that if he bets it folds out weaker hands, because it doesnt necessarily have that effect. To simply say that this is correct if he has a weak ace I feel is wrong. In fact, betting the river here is probably the best move because many times people will check behind this river fearing the ace, but will call a bet because they have two pair.

kurto · #26 10-29-2007, 05:19 PM

I think the next interesting question is, what do we think of villains play?

My .02-
(1) Preflop - If I have AK in the SB to a UTG raise - if UTG is tight, I am more inclined to call. I don't want to be OOP to a tight player who's only raising the higher end of his range. Against looser players I may reraise.
(2) I like his flop check. If he bets, most pairs are going to fold. He can get some money from a Cbet.
(3) the turn is tougher- With the third ace falling, its more likely now that we have the best hand or a tie. Hoping for another bet with an underpair is unlikely.
(4) I think if you check the turn you have to bet the river. That may seem like a steal. If the turn is checked I think its too hopeful to think an underpair bets the river. (though I could be wrong considering how many here thought he should bet the river for value.)

Is it best to check the river hoping for a bluff?

Profish2285 · #27 10-29-2007, 05:22 PM

Youre not wrong about part 4 because he has no idea what we have. He has absolutely no reason to assume we are value betting anything. We are taking this exact line with a whiffed c-bet. There is no way that I dont bet turn if I was villain, but for some reason if I didnt, then there is even less of a chance I check river.

Zaid_Ahmed · #28 10-29-2007, 05:24 PM

if villain is good enough to put you on the sort of hand you have his river check is actually not too bad, as I'm bet/folding QQ alot in this spot, whereas I'm not going to pay off $8 on the river.

Profish2285 · #29 10-29-2007, 05:27 PM

Yes, but there are very few players who are going to be good enough to do that at micros.

ScarfaceGER · #30 10-29-2007, 05:31 PM

my stats were 24/19

And one reason of my check were that I want to see the sd to get an information about him and take a note. Also he had fold to c-bet 98% so I was done with the hand after the flop because i did not put him on a 10 or ab pp after c/c with his stats.