A bit of a new theory i call 'fake isolation'

[ReneLuske]

Hi everyone im just a 100NL regular but i have met with a pretty interesting situation the last week, that situation left me to think about a little 'theory' of my own. I hope u guys will respond to me with what u think about it!

Faking weakness for so called 'isolation':

Ok, we have the following situation:

We as a Hero find AA utg+1 on the CO or on the Button in a full ring game or 6 handed it does not really matter.
All that matters is, we need a shortstacked player behind us whom is pretty good, or just pushes a lot.

What happens next is utg, utg+1 or CO opens with a raise, we have got aces, which ofcourse we would usually reraise with.
But instead of reraising we now flatcall, assuming and hoping that the aggressive or regular shorty will push behind us with a lot of odds and good equity for his 10, 20 or 25 bb push. That ofcourse leaves the initial raiser to a decision in
which he will usually make the following decision: Follow up with a reraise to isolate the shortstack for good equity vs the shortstacker.

When Initial raiser does this he has already commited about 30/40% of his stack with the hand he initially raised with. This hand can ofcourse never be stronger then ours and probably is quite often not even that strong of a hand.
So now we reraise him; Villain can now ofcourse fold and then we got his 40% stack but he will probably call your reraise since he has created this situation with a lot of equity for him. This is ofcourse a great situation for you because youve got DA NUTS!

Now the downsides: What if SS behind u does not push but just calls with another caller mayb even behind him, ofcourse we dont want a 3 or 4-way pot with aces in
which we will probably get drawn out on the flop and got no clue were we stand. So this is a tough one and we gotta play our aces very carefully here and should be able to lay it down pretty easily.

This means ofcourse that we shouldnt always flatcall with aces with a shortstack behind us, we need to know hes a regular whom knows hes getting good odds
with a push or some weird pushing villain with just 20BB who is pushing with a lot of hands whenever we decide to use this 'isolation technique' too trap
an opponent. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[JackAll]

This seems fine, but you need to know that the shortie is pushing a fair bit. Even if he doesn't though, disguised AA is fine pf if is against a decent pre flop raiser that puts opponents on hands and will put you on a hand range that doesn't have AA in it much, or if the initial raise is over aggro in general.

It also means you will need to learn how to play AA for the many times that shorties doesn't rrz and we are the non aggressors in a raise pot on the flop. Like you said, we need to be very aware that we are under repped, but also need to know that when someone is showing huge strength like c/raising a family flop we are in a marginal spot.

[josh_x]

this is called slowplaying

[Alexpoker]

I don't think this a good play in a cash game.

What if two bigs stacks call the raise after you ??

You have AA in a multiway pot ... with 2 players who may have called with speculative hands.

I don't think the value you have when it works is enough to compensate the value you left by not reraising.

When I reraise with AA, it's for value and also for ISOLATION. Because you don't want to play a multiway pot and you want to chase out speculative hands. I can remenber all the time I slowplay AA and have been stack ...

[Louis Vuitton]

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this is called slowplaying

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[Shizzle12345]

you play on everest right? I got you 12/10 over 250 hands. If you loosen up more you might get action with AA UTG+1 without doing this tricky stuff ;P

[El_Hombre_Grande]

Another theory would be to 3 bet often enough that AA is disguised, and the shotstack will feel comfy pushing over you with a reasonable hand, or limper will call. I'd be concerned that often SS just folds and AA is played 4 way with the blinds for a tiny pot and one of the blinds (probably 47o) hits two pair.

Not a bad play, IMO, but has a substantial downside.

FWIW, I often limp aces at a table with overagressive "any ace" guys. I do this becasue if the case hits the board they will pay you off very, very well, especially if you check call the flop-- there is nothing better. But you need to balance "fancy plays" with the fact that nothing sucks worse than a tiny tiny pot with AA and you letting the blinds limp with random (censored).

[ReneLuske]

Yeah i play on everest [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] my own stats over 40K hands say im a 14/13 so not that nitty but you ofcourse are right.

[loosbastard]

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im a 14/13 so not that nitty

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Yes, you are.

[ReneLuske]

I would like to thank you for the great contribution to the topic!

I assume u are not really thinking 14/13 is as nitty as 12/10?