AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

[Dan Druff]

Anyone reading this from AP: I will put this popcorn scandal right for you. Wire $10,000 to me (the same account you have wired my other cashouts), and I will personally bring it over to the charity you promised the money last year.

I will also post the name of the charity at that time, scan a signed receipt, and offer a contact at that charity for anyone to verify that I actually brought the money there.

Again, if somehow I was misinformed about this matter, please tell me which charity received the money last year, and who I can contact to verify it. I know for sure that the $1 popcorn fee was designated for charity, because I remember being told that as I coughed up the buck for the popcorn last year.

So either come up with a charity you actually gave the money to, or make this one right.

[STA654]

Scott Tom's favorite hobby: telling 2nd grades there's no santa clause.

[JMX]

I think there are just too many variables to consider for compensation calculations.

[ChrisV]

lol, now you want to be paid for your time playing? I don't think that is going to fly.

I doubt AP's official statement well contain a mea culpa for their lying and coverups. I think 2+2 will instead receive one privately via say adanthar or Adam from p5s.

[hackerssuck]

You guys did some awsome work taking on a giant like absolute poker...i'v been banned already so i just made this account to tell you guys that you can track anyone down if you have a name....for $29.00 you can get access to anyone's information legally online..... here is the link to "hilt Tatum" that guy you are all talking about..... shows every hilt in america........ and their are only a few...also shows all his reletives, but if you want all his information, this site charges like $50 for all known information on anyone you want....check out the link.......hope this can help you guys some..
CHECK THIS LINK FOR HILT TATUM

http://www.veromi.net/Summary.asp?fn=HIL...p;x=55&y=15

[pineapple888]

Mods notified about dipstick poster above.

[Dan Druff]

[ QUOTE ]
Dan, thanks for your efforts.

But I really don't think you can count potential bets saved by a cheater as lost income to our heroes.

The real question is "If greycat never existed, how much more money would I have?" And to a first order of approximation, that amount is your NET losses to him, as shown in your PT DB (and in Absolute's records, I hope).

Anything else will simply muddy the waters, not to mention being hopelessly impossible to calculate.

As for the popcorn, well, meh. I suppose I should be more shocked than I am. But when you look at what % of revenue "net proceeds" from an honest sale of this type are, and what % of that goes to actual needy recipients instead of charity overhead and downstream "leakage"... well, let's just say I'm not hugely distraught. It's bad, of course. But just another distraction from the main issues here, I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

You make a good point about refunding only "net losses" by players due to GRAYCAT and the others, and I actually thought about that. However, the reverse argument can be made here -- that GRAYCAT was actually freerolling us because there was some chance he either wouldn't get caught or it wouldn't be proven. (The latter was more likely, and probably would be the case were it not for the smoking gun EXCEL file.)

Therefore, it is simply not fair to just return the lost money plus interest, since that would mean that GRAYCAT and friends got the opportunity to either break even (financially, at least) or win a million-plus dollars.

Therefore, I think it's fair to reward people not just what they lost -- but at least some of what they would have won had GRAYCAT played without superuser access. This could be done by awarding a punitive percentage above and beyond the losses plus interest, along with a punitive award to those who played but were lucky enough not to lose versus the cheaters.

Regarding the charity: This is not about how effective charities spend money. If popcorn is being sold for charity, the money should go there. While some of the $10k might be wasted on administrative BS, it sure as hell will do the world more good than sitting in Scott Tom's dirty pocket. It is garbage like this that AP must make right if they want to clean up their very tarnished image.

[apefish]

[ QUOTE ]
lol, now you want to be paid for your time playing? I don't think that is going to fly.


[/ QUOTE ]

tbh, I'd start from the position that being made whole includes some compensation for time wasted in games one couldn't possibly win in, and not just the money back that was stolen.
I think it's very reasonable.

[Michael Davis]

Hey guys,

I can confirm a few things here.

First, the guy you discovered in the wedding album is indeed the Scott I met at the Absolute offices, the guy who was in charge, and I was also told at the time the story about this particular guy's dad funding AP's startup. Again, I can't remember much but that is the guy and that is the girl he was with then.

Also, Innovative Data Systems or whatever it was called was the name on the doors of AP's offices. It's likely a shell company that allows them to operate in Costa Rica, where gambling is legal but more pressure is put on the host sites all the time.

-Michael

[Dan Druff]

Actually, I thought about it, and the money awarded back to the players shouldn't be a percentage of losses. It should be a dollar amount that is a function of hands played versus the cheaters and the limits where they played.