Villain open shove flops in 3bet pot

[phage]

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These spots come up about once a session with me. I never (EVER) fold overpairs or TPTK in them. So I've probably called here about 200-300 times, and consequently have a sample size of 2-300 to use to estimate what hole cards your typical drooler will have here.

You, on the other hand, always fold here. Your sample size consists of the 10 or 20 hands that villain might have deigned to show you instead of mucking (and that's if you've played as many sessions as me, which is possible, because I don't do nearly as many hands/month as most here).

And yet you'd like to lecture all of us on Villain's range? Do you see why I am getting a little tired of arguing with you about villain's range? How the hell would you know it? You are applying some amateur psychology to people you can't even see, to try and get an inkling of their thought-process. You make all kinds of (incorrect) assumptions about how rational these people (that you can't see, and don't know) would act.

Me, I'll take the data from my n=200 experiment over your intuition, thanks very much.

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How many times were you behind when you've made those calls? I'm not trying to be a dick here...Just curious.

[Snipe]

Bilbo shoots and scores again.

Question for everyone tho - how much does it change things if this is UTG versus UTG+1?

[Andykay]

Wow I went to sleep and this thread exploded. Ok first off, when I said that the player seemed bad, the only info I had for that is the obvious, he open shoved a flop for 4x the pot. That isn't to say he is an awful player in all regards. For all I know he could be 2+2 and using some kind of crazy reverse level, knowing the standard 2+2 line on this board is snap call.

This is a 3bet pot. If he is remotely competent he probably realises on that board i've either got a monster or nothing. I don't necessarily know if he's bad enough to just open shove top pair when I could very easily have a set/overpair here.

I know folding here looks weak, but this hand is one of a few where i've flopped a set or a big overpair and the dynamics of that particular hand have made me feel like I should fold. Every time that's been the case in recent months i've been beaten. Of course i've called every time because that's the standard line, but i'm starting to question whether it should always be.

-Andy

[bilbo-san]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

These spots come up about once a session with me. I never (EVER) fold overpairs or TPTK in them. So I've probably called here about 200-300 times, and consequently have a sample size of 2-300 to use to estimate what hole cards your typical drooler will have here.

You, on the other hand, always fold here. Your sample size consists of the 10 or 20 hands that villain might have deigned to show you instead of mucking (and that's if you've played as many sessions as me, which is possible, because I don't do nearly as many hands/month as most here).

And yet you'd like to lecture all of us on Villain's range? Do you see why I am getting a little tired of arguing with you about villain's range? How the hell would you know it? You are applying some amateur psychology to people you can't even see, to try and get an inkling of their thought-process. You make all kinds of (incorrect) assumptions about how rational these people (that you can't see, and don't know) would act.

Me, I'll take the data from my n=200 experiment over your intuition, thanks very much.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many times were you behind when you've made those calls? I'm not trying to be a dick here...Just curious.

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Make a WILD guess, based on how I advocated that OP act in this hand, and assuming that I am not a sadistic prick trying to burn OP's money.