QQ preflop cap why?

malicor · #1 08-09-2007, 06:21 AM

I read in various starting hand charts that QQ is a cap/cap hand.

If I raise with QQ and get reraised behing, what could the reraiser have ? only another cap hand ? that'd be either
AA
KK
QQ
AKs
AKo ?

that'd set me ahead against AK* and behind against AA and KK
AK* is 16 possible variations
AA is 6 possible variations, KK 6, too, so i'd be ahead
in 16 cases and behind in 12 ?

is that the solution already ?

qq vs. aks is 53.9 vs. 46.1% win-chance
qq vs. ako is 56.7 vs. 43.3% win-chance
qq vs. aa is 18.4 vs. 81.6% win-chance
qq vs. kk is 18.0 vs. 82.0% win-chance (astonishing

if taking that into account we get:

qq-aks: 4 *53.9
qq-ako: 12*56.7
qq-aa : 6 *18.4
qq-kk : 6 *18.0

sum that up and divide through the number of distributions gives:
1114.4/28 = 39.8%

giving qq a 39.8% chance to win against {aa,kk,aks,ako}
(am i doing a mistake here somewhere ?)

regards, malicor

HollywoodDB · #2 08-09-2007, 06:32 AM

Your opponents 3 betting range is going to be much wider than that. I think you can add 99-JJ. AQs, AJs, sometimes even lighter than that. Depends on the player.

HoneyBadger · #3 08-09-2007, 06:46 AM

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.366% 45.79% 01.58% 164644764 5675268.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 52.634% 51.06% 01.58% 183588540 5675268.00 { JJ+, AKs, AKo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.992% 51.65% 01.34% 228176244 5929362.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 47.008% 45.67% 01.34% 201739464 5929362.00 { TT+, AQs+, AKo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 58.578% 57.50% 01.08% 348535992 6537042.00 { QQ }
Hand 1: 41.422% 40.34% 01.08% 244545540 6537042.00 { 99+, AJs+, AQo+ }

It depends on position. If you are UTG and he is UTG+1 and sees you as a tight player, there might not be an edge. But it won't be much worse than almost break-even.

jesse8888 · #4 08-09-2007, 12:01 PM

And even if his range is that tight....

Also remember that your winning chances are probably a little better than you think against AK. You are about 56% to win (on average) against it IF he gets to see all 5 cards. However, some of his 44% comes when he hits TPTK on the river, and aggressive play on your part could knock him out before that card comes.

PokrLikeItsProse · #5 08-09-2007, 01:31 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your opponents 3 betting range is going to be much wider than that. I think you can add 99-JJ. AQs, AJs, sometimes even lighter than that. Depends on the player.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've played against players whose three-betting range is tighter than what the OP listed. As you said, it depends on the player.

NevadaKaz · #6 08-09-2007, 02:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Your opponents 3 betting range is going to be much wider than that. I think you can add 99-JJ. AQs, AJs, sometimes even lighter than that. Depends on the player.

[/ QUOTE ]

HoneyBadger · #7 08-09-2007, 02:55 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Also remember that your winning chances are probably a little better than you think against AK. You are about 56% to win (on average) against it IF he gets to see all 5 cards.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's an additional good point.

But you're also OOP, so you're a slight dog, usually. The main reason, then, would be because you also cap AA and you need to balance your range somewhat.

Gnome XXL · #8 08-09-2007, 03:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I read in various starting hand charts that QQ is a cap/cap hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could you provide a reference to one of these for limit. (I am currently using SSHE recommendations).

Xhad · #9 08-09-2007, 03:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also remember that your winning chances are probably a little better than you think against AK. You are about 56% to win (on average) against it IF he gets to see all 5 cards.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's an additional good point.

But you're also OOP, so you're a slight dog, usually. The main reason, then, would be because you also cap AA and you need to balance your range somewhat.

[/ QUOTE ]

If my opponent's 3betting range really is that tight, I'm capping nothing and c/r'ing my big hands on either the flop or the turn.

Frond · #10 08-09-2007, 07:30 PM

Well, for example from last night's live game: Several of the pots got capped preflop. The ones doing the capping were at times the ones that were the initial PF raisers and they were just capping light for the hell of it cause someone 3 bet them or because they were spazzos. I saw this from more than just one player with a hand like JQs, KTs or JAo etc, so PF raising ranges vary from player to player. I almost always cap it if possible with 2 byatches unless you know that the raise is coming from Great Great Grandpa Joe who never raises anything except AA.