Convert me.

Misfire · #1 09-10-2007, 12:54 AM

I've been libertarian for years. AC seems a very tempting next step in my own political evolution. This forum obv. has done a lot to make me consider some of my own assumptions about the necessity of the state. I'm still resistant to the idea of a total absence of the state (I mean, who would build ROADS?!?!? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]), so it's time to try and push me over the edge. Can you make me an anarchist?

I'm planing to purchase a number of AC books in the near future to see if anyone's argument can seriously convince me that the absence of the state would be preferable to a minimal state. First on my list I think is Anarchy, State, and Utopia by Robert Nozick.

I guess my question to the hard-core AC crowd is first, is AS&U a good start? What other books/sources do you recommend to really lay out the AC philosophy and convert the skeptical?

calmB4storm · #2 09-10-2007, 12:58 AM

What specifically do you currently believe should be the state's role in society?

Personally, reading a ton of articles on Mises.org was enough to "convert" me. Maybe we can find some articles that address the specific areas that you aren't quite convinced would work w/o the state.

BCPVP · #3 09-10-2007, 01:28 AM

A,S & U would probably not convince you to support anarchism, since Nozick himself rejected it (unless his style puts you off so much you convert out of spite [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). Ethics of Liberty and For a New Liberty convinced me, but those are free and also approach AC from the a natural rights/moral perspective. So if you're a utilitarian at heart, those may not be so convincing.

pvn · #4 09-10-2007, 01:42 AM

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Can you make me an anarchist?

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Misfire · #5 09-10-2007, 02:46 AM

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What specifically do you currently believe should be the state's role in society?

Personally, reading a ton of articles on Mises.org was enough to "convert" me. Maybe we can find some articles that address the specific areas that you aren't quite convinced would work w/o the state.

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Not exactly sure at this point. I mean, the tired argument about roads has been long debunked. Matters of law and order seem to be a stronger argument for a state--police, courts, prisons, etc. I know this could turn into a "What would AC do about X?" thread, but that's not what I'm getting at. I know nobody knows exactly what would happen sans state, but I guess I'm looking for a more fundamental understanding of AC and why I should trust it to be better than statism in all or almost all areas.

I'm sure most of my assumptions about the state are things I've just accepted as given my whole life, so now I'm looking to challenge those assumptions and see if any actually stand up.

Misfire · #6 09-10-2007, 02:46 AM

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Can you make me an anarchist?

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Cute, but I really expected more from you.

zasterguava · #7 09-10-2007, 02:56 AM

Conversion to an anarchist or an anarcho-capitalist?

Anarcho-capitalism is rather abhorrent. I find it alarming that people could have such flawed ethics to hold the principles of ACism to be the ideal mode of life.

Regarding the philosophy of anarchism (not the dictionary definition which ACism uses) I can point you in the direction of Emma Thompson, Mikhail Bakunin, Murray Bookchin... Bakunin's God and State is my favourite book on anarchism largely because it intertwines an antitheist viewpoint against religion with similar arguments against the state

Misfire · #8 09-10-2007, 03:03 AM

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A,S & U would probably not convince you to support anarchism, since Nozick himself rejected it (unless his style puts you off so much you convert out of spite [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). Ethics of Liberty and For a New Liberty convinced me, but those are free and also approach AC from the a natural rights/moral perspective. So if you're a utilitarian at heart, those may not be so convincing.

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Maybe I was misinformed about AS&U. The descriptions of Rothbard's books seem to equate AC with libertarianism. Which is it?

Another book that caught my eye was The Machinery of Freedom by David D. Friedman. Thoughts?

Misfire · #9 09-10-2007, 03:07 AM

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Anarcho-capitalism is rather abhorrent. I find it alarming that people could have such flawed ethics to hold the principles of ACism to be the ideal mode of life.

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How are their ethics flawed?

pergesu · #10 09-10-2007, 03:15 AM

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Anarcho-capitalism is rather abhorrent. I find it alarming that people could have such flawed ethics to hold the principles of ACism to be the ideal mode of life.

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How are their ethics flawed?

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And even if they are, can't people just buy a new set?