Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[NLfool]

somehow I think Absolute is in this somehow. They won so much money and dumped so much money something in there system should have red flagged this. Also even after being notified they still let these guys chip dump. Those accounts should have been frozen before the latest chip dumps.

It's easy not to have to payback anyone when money is dumped and spread around to dozens of players.

[apefish]

[ QUOTE ]
For the next cliffnotes thread, whoever makes it, can you divide it into 4 sections:

1) Executive summary (just take pokeraddict's summary and update it with whatever you think is important from this link)

2) Pokertracker evidence (pokertracker stats, THEN hand histories)

3) Links/Theories (circumstantial evidence stuff goes here)

4) Humor

Just so people can look at the front page and not see a sea of hand histories.

I can rewrite the summary and add in things after it's posted.

Adanthar is gone for the next two weeks so I will help out on these threads when I have time.

[/ QUOTE ]


I would be willing to put some time into this tonight. I have a couple hours of actual work still to do but could start.
Pineapple's letter ( I think it was him- I only skimmed) seems nearly there for a part of a summary, I think it gives a very good overall backstory.

Definitely agree the humor stuff needs to go at the end this time- I nearly started an Absolute soulreading humor thread last night to take some of that out of here- but realized we would then be working with two monster threads and the discussion would even further fracture.

The anecdotal stuff would be kept to its own section this time. I have some other thoughts on it and will post more later.
If people think this thread hasn't yet run its course or is still serving its function and hasn't become logjammed yet mention it and I won't start in too deep on some new ordering of things.
I have no problem also doing some of the work and passing it onto another person to cleanup/further.

Gone for a couple hours although I may login from the office and browse while getting the work done.

cc- yeah I agree. I nearly did that last night to clarify.

-apefish

[A2steaksauce]

Another response from AP that doesn't say anything conclusive.
Dear XXXXXXXXXX,

Thank you for contacting us.

As we told you we can’t really give you back that money, but because
you are a good player we will send this issue to our management team so
they can take the decision.

If there is anything else we can assist you with please let us know.

Sincerely,

Jose
Team Absolute ~ Security & Control Department

I know it's obvious, but it's worth repeating: AP's support department is completely worthless.

[ZOMG_RIGGED!]

[ QUOTE ]
ds doesnt need to be a spokesman but you cant deny that he has very good ability to express somewhat complicated, technical aspects in a clear and concise manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got a good laugh out of your joke, and then reliezed you may be serious

[noseeds99]

lol at A2s -6K, nice catch ikestoys

[K9s00ted]

teddy,

I've read these threads for the past several days and I'm posting for the first time. I work as an internet security consultant. I also play quite of bit of poker online, but not at absolute.

From what I've seen so far, this smells of an inside job. This seems eerily similar to the Breeders cup scandal of 2002:
http://espn.go.com/horse/news/2002/1120/1463562.html

The problem here almost certainly is a rogue inside guy with intimate knowledge of the backend server software and access to hole card data in real time. How someone is able to get that information during a live hand could only be done through multiple failures at different levels at absolute.

From a software design standpoint, any poker site should go to great lengths to ensure that the hole card data can only be seen by the person playing the hand. There should be no feature on the server software to allow any human to view hole cards until the hand is over. After the hand is over, it can be written to the HH logs. There is simply no reason to have any "superuser" account in production that can see other hole cards, nor should there be any way for even the administrators of the servers or the software to even view this information. However, all the evidence provided here so far indicates that there is some back door like this at absolute that has been used in production.

It seems clear to me that there is likely a breakdown here in the Absolute organization where software security controls were not followed. Usually this happens when organizations get sloppy. Is it a coincidence that many of the hand history files are corrupt when coming from Absolute? Is it a coincidence that the security team has trouble figuring out if two players even played together?

I think not.

From the information available so far, it seems that management is not intentionally trying to use “god mode” to steal money at high stakes tables. That would be crazy. But, there is probably one or two inside guys that know more about the system than anyone else that they should be looking at. From your synopsis of their security department, this might take some time for them to figure out what really happened. This is especially true since the people that actually used the information had no clue how to hide their tracks.

[Klompy]

[ QUOTE ]
We should keep in mind that the remarkable thing about the river aggression isn't merely that it is high, its that he's almost always right when he does it. Any monkey can jam the river, but the suspicious part is doing it correctly 20 or 30 times in a row. I felt that was getting lost in the accounts.



[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo, this is the entire reason why I even accept that they're cheating. This and the relationship between when they actually fold preflop and someone has q,q-a,a is just unreal.

[JamesAt15]

[ QUOTE ]
There is simply no reason to have any "superuser" account in production that can see other hole cards, nor should there be any way for even the administrators of the servers or the software to even view this information. However, all the evidence provided here so far indicates that there is some back door like this at absolute that has been used in production.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. A poker site might decide that a tool for their investigations/security department that can display the hole cards of all players at a table of a game in progress would be useful in investigating and responding quickly to reports of collusion and chip-dumping. If they get reports of suspicious activity, they could bring up the table in question and get an immediate feel for if the players' actions make sense or not, instead of waiting for each hand to finish and then reviewing the master hand history information.

Of course this would be a serious security risk, but it's possible someone made a decision in favor of quick response and convenience for their internal security teams, and the risk of the tool being abused would be next to zero.

Here's a thought - ask Absolute if they have such a tool. All I recall seeing is a statement that their game client does not receive the other users' hole card info.

If they have a tool like this, they won't respond. But if they don't, if they have designed their system securely so that no one has any access to this information while the game is in progress, it gives them a chance to say so.

[PartyGirlUK]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is simply no reason to have any "superuser" account in production that can see other hole cards, nor should there be any way for even the administrators of the servers or the software to even view this information. However, all the evidence provided here so far indicates that there is some back door like this at absolute that has been used in production.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me play devil's advocate for a minute. A poker site might decide that a tool for their investigations/security department that can display the hole cards of all players at a table of a game in progress would be useful in investigating and responding quickly to reports of collusion and chip-dumping. If they get reports of suspicious activity, they could bring up the table in question and get an immediate feel for if the players' actions make sense or not, instead of waiting for each hand to finish and then reviewing the master hand history information.

Of course this would be a serious security risk, but it's possible someone made a decision in favor of quick response and convenience for their internal security teams, and the risk of the tool being abused would be next to zero.

Here's a thought - ask Absolute if they have such a tool. All I recall seeing is a statement that their game client does not receive the other users' hole card info.

If they have a tool like this, they won't respond. But if they don't, if they have designed their system securely so that no one has any access to this information while the game is in progress, it gives them a chance to say so.

[/ QUOTE ]

They can just have it on 5 minute delay.

[Josem]

An explanation for non-poker players:

Across the world, hundreds of thousands of people often take part in games of online poker. These games are typically run by a variety of businesses - businesses that make a long-term profit because of the safety, security and reliability of their games.

Recently, one operator, called "Absolute Poker" appears to have been allowing cheating to take place on their site. In short, it appears that certain player accounts are able to view the supposedly hidden cards of other players. In a game of poker it is impossible to beat someone who knows with 100% accuracy what cards you have!

In Texas Hold'em poker, the most popular form of poker, each player is dealt two cards. These two cards are then combined with community cards to form the best five card poker hand for each player. The best two cards to be dealt are two aces - often called "pocket aces." This is closely followed in strength by a pair of kings, a pair of queens, and so on.

Playing in a recent tournament, the cheaters NEVER made a bet when any of their opponents had pocket kings, pocket aces or pocket queens. This would not be unusual - except that they made a bet on almost every other hand. In other words, they are playing every hand, except when their opponents have one of the strongest possible hands, and they have no possible way to know it (there are no relevant physical "tells" or signs in online poker compared to playing in person).

Due to the way that Texas Hold'em is played, there are a series of rounds of betting on each hand. There is betting when the first two (hidden) cards are dealt, and then after three of the community cards are dealt, and then after the next community card, and then after the fifth and final community card. The cheater's betting patterns on each round are only explainable by someone who can see other players' cards.

For example, on the last round of betting, when all the cards are dealt, one hand is always going to be better than the other player's (sometimes they are tied and are the same, but this is irrelevant here). The players who are cheating always managed to make the right decision at the end. If the opponent's hand was worse, the cheaters would bet or raise. If the cheaters' hand was worse, the cheaters would either fold, or sometimes make a big bluff. Not once did the cheaters call - because if you know what your opponents' cards are, you would never need to call.

Much of the data has been collected and analysed using a computer program called PokerTracker, which is used by many professional poker players across the world. This program records games of poker, and calculates statistics on how players play. Hundreds of hands were analysed, and this analysis revealed:

I can't explain the PT stuff well. If someone else can, this might be a good addition..