Absolute Soulreading/Rigged thread #3

[Victor]

" I'm just curious how this will all shake out."

no gets reimbursed.

games continue on absolute.

blatant cheating accts disappear.

the only real question is if the cheaters reappear and if they are recognizable next time.

[adanthar]

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2.) It might still be +EV to play there. Especially if everyone else who is clueful leaves.

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I never played much at AP, but it seems to me that if you are playing at a site with a demonstrated hole card cam, it only takes unknowingly going up against one cheater playing about...let's say three hands or so to make up for the extra 2 BB/100 you get from playing there for...let's call it a month.

[Josem]

What would happen to the gameplay if there were multiple players at the table who had access to all hole cards?


edit: added italics for clarity

[pineapple888]

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2.) It might still be +EV to play there. Especially if everyone else who is clueful leaves.

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I never played much at AP, but it seems to me that if you are playing at a site with a demonstrated hole card cam, it only takes unknowingly going up against one cheater playing about...let's say three hands or so to make up for the extra 2 BB/100 you get from playing there for...let's call it a month.

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Good point, I was thinking more if the games got as soft as live play. If you could double (or more) your winrate AND figure out how to avoid the cheaters. But before it gets to that point people will arbitrage their way back in I suppose.

[pineapple888]

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What would happen to the gameplay if there were multiple players at the table who had access to all hole cards?


edit: added italics for clarity

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Well they'd probably figure out who each other were pretty fast and avoid each other. Of course 2 is an absurd number in this context, this is either one cheating ring or the whole thing will go to hell pretty fast.

[A2steaksauce]

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how about if the highstakes players make a complaint together? Instead of leaving one by one? I dont think they would listen to my complaint, since I dont play cashgames at all, and hence is not nearly as profitable for them to care about. But they would have to listen to a joint complaint, right?

From more than a "random internet fora", they need to get the message in with a hammer; "we will leave AP, if you do not officially send out a statement outing the involved cheaters, and a trial(?) against them too" and maybe something about refunds?

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Obviously I told AP this before I said it here. I know Ike did the same, not sure about the rest of the NL regulars. Of the players that lost quite a bit, manuteboljr and FUbeggar seem to be ignorant to the situation, and friscomelt and phwap have yet to voice an opinion as far as i know.

[stu-unger]

i personally would really like to see absolute bring forth some sort of completely transparent explanation to the claims that have been brought up of late. i think the idea of organizing a group of players to create some weight is the best idea. i think something along the lines of this from enough high volume players could maybe possibly get us an actual explanation...

AP,

I have recently been exposed to/informed of what seems to be some very questionable play on your site. The players involved were ___________, ___________, ____________ . The dates and time of said games are _______, _______, etc. The play in question involved many statistical anomalies including _________ .

Myself and the players listed below will not play on your site again unless we are provided a sound explanation that satisfies us. We are openly discussing these issues currently on the 2+2 forums, pocket 5s forums, and you are welcome to join us there.


_____
_____
_____
_____

i.e a list of high volume players



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that letter sucks, but i think this idea is the best tool available to us at this moment in time. also, it would probably help if someone informed the PPA even though this isnt their real use.

[benza13]

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So... now what?

It seems like it is all in Absolute's hands, for better or worse, as far as proof/reimbursement. And we can each make our own estimates of the chances of that.

Do the high-stakes 2+2ers players say "F it" and go back? Do non-high-stakes 2+2ers go back? Cause if they all leave, the games are sure gonna be soft...

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I would imagine that most 2+2 regs will talk big, keep some money on there, and end up never leaving if the games get better. So they will be softer for a while.

UNLESS, this issue has become so big that fish start to hear about it (which from the other threads it seems like they have). This is a big concern, as many fish will think if it happened on Absolute it can happen anywhere.

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Eh, all this evidence is way too sophisticated for the fish, and they all think poker is rigged anyway, and it was an isolated incident, yadda yadda yadda.

I'm not too worried about broader repercussions.

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I am worried about broader repercussions exactly because the fish are going to read that Absolute was rigged in some way and not understand anything beyond that. This issue is blowing up on a lot of poker forums and it will be very easy for fish to hear about it in passing. Being fish they woucl then easily extrapolate that all sites could easily be rigged and possibly leave online poker altogether.

[Klompy]

My guess is that we'll never see the cheaters accounts play again, but that they'll be back grinding slightly smaller stakes, or mtt's in a not so obvious fashion again with in the next week. I think that now they won't be so obvious, and that they'll get away with it for a long long time.

[adanthar]

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My guess is that we'll never see the cheaters accounts play again, but that they'll be back grinding slightly smaller stakes, or mtt's in a not so obvious fashion again with in the next week. I think that now they won't be so obvious, and that they'll get away with it for a long long time.

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If Absolute does nothing, that's exactly what will happen.

If they do something...I'm not really gonna notice a difference since it'd take an earn rate sufficient to overcome hole card cams to make me try Absolute again?