AT, 2 overcards, standard?

hi,

mp1 is 34/11/1.4 after 65 hands
button is 56/0/0.5 after 23 hands
sb is 33/22 after 20 hands for what it's worth

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 3-bets</font>, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7 BB

just to check, this is standard right, especially against a not-very-aggressive guy?
do you peel the flop after he 3-bets? i don't like my outs if i do...
my raise aimed to knock out the 2 other guys, maybe clean some outs and take a free card on the turn unimproved.

[CountingMyOuts]

Against a not very aggressive player who is betting into me as a preflop raiser, I wouldn't raise the flop. He has something. The other 2 guys are loose and may not go away if they have a draw or made hand, either. Save your money here and fold. Don't bother to peel after a 3-bet.

[Grease]

Eww. This hand is ugly.

I would fold the flop. Since you didn't and he raised he, I would call the raise since you're getting a million to one on your call (and it would look awful to fold to a flop 3-bet here) and then fold the turn.

MP1 isn't nearly agressive enough to do this, and I would probably fold against all but the most insane players.

[Man of Means]

The flop raise is not so good. Either peel one card or pitch it right there. I'd tend to fold because of your position (others may raise) and the weakness of your outs.

[MarkD]

I think you made a mistake on every decision in the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
I think you made a mistake on every decision in the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

well, nice! great help

ok, since everybody hates that hand, i'll argue a little bit.

first of all, there's no way i don't raise preflop here.

flop:

[ QUOTE ]
Against a not very aggressive player who is betting into me as a preflop raiser, I wouldn't raise the flop. He has something

[/ QUOTE ]

the fact that he has something doesn't mean we should go away from our hand in a healthy pot in my opinion.
SINCE WE WANT TO STAY IN THE HAND, I THINK THE BEST PLAY IS TO RAISE, NOT CALL.
raising has several benefits here:
-first of all, the free card raise. it often works against passive opponents, and here they seem to be. as says SSHE, if it's good to see 1 card for 1sb, it's good to see 2 cards for 2sb
-i think i can count on 4 or 5 outs here against 1 opponents, BUT LESS OUTS AGAINST 3 OPPONENTS. so raising can clean me outs.
-raising faces 2 opponents with 2 bets cold and may force them to fold, improving my chances to win the hand
-raising often gains me position as there's only 1 guy behind me
-i can post some hands where that exact raise on the flop won me the pot uncontested.

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold the flop. Since you didn't and he raised he, I would call the raise since you're getting a million to one on your call (and it would look awful to fold to a flop 3-bet here) and then fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

so a donk bet scares you and you fold, but a 3-bet makes you think you have to peel?
even though you're getting better odds once he 3-bets, i think the most elementary hand-reading tells us that THAT guy doesn't have only one pair once he 3-bets, and therefore we're NOT getting the odds at all with 2 overcards. even with the chance he has A9 we ain't.

i don't think the flop bet means a monster often enough to fold. a lot of pairs, draws are in his range here.

[HoneyBadger]

I like the preflop raise. You try to isolate a loose limper with AT, you're probably ahead here. Only it didn't work... too bad.

On the flop I think you should just fold. Given that you raise, you obviously think you have enough outs to compete and are looking to perhaps buy an ace as out. However, it's unlikely a loose player like BB will fold ace-rag that hit his rag. After all he has a pair, and you don't fold pairs. Also, the guy betting into you might have an ace-rag that hit. So that's 3 outs for you then. Not enough to even call, as it might also be raised behind you.

But once you raised, and he 3 bets, you must call. If you thought your hand was worth a raise before, you definitely think it's still worth a call now.

(He already told you "I have at least a 9" and you replied with "I don't care, I'm going to outdraw you" and then he says "Well, but I REALLY have at least a 9" and then you suddenly say "Oh ok,in that case you can have it". Weird.)

[HoneyBadger]

I really liked what someone else said here the other day:

All your actions should be consistent throughout the hand.

Most often an inconsistency means a bad play. I some book they actually say the same with some hands: in for a penny, in for a pound. Meaning that often when you call one street, you must call the next, because if you don't you should've folded the previous street.

[Gazzbut]

[ QUOTE ]
But once you raised, and he 3 bets, you must call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why must he call? As he said his plan was to clean up outs/ buy a free card etc. Once he gets 3bet theres not much chance of a free card on the turn, so what are you calling for? To hit and win the hand obviously. Hero is getting 14/1 on the call but how many outs can we give him? Id say only 2. Theres a good chance that villian has hit a set here or even the straight. Even with the implied odds this would be a bad call.

I would have folded to the initial flop bet. Once the isolation play has failed and you have a preflop cold caller behind you still to act the raise is a bad play IMO.

[Bill C]

Fold on the flop. You have overs but no draws, and if you do hit you can be easily dominated.

bill c