Min bets slow me down...

[jlp_2908]

When Im OOP and check, esp heads up, and the opponent bets 1bb into a 8 bb pot it seems that Im always just calling regardless of what I have...I think its something to do with that retarded article I read on Full Tilt awhile back when I first started playing...Titled something like "beware the min bet".

So now I just call hoping to draw something on the turn/river.

How do you guys handle the min bets? What do they mean? I know, by goin to showdown, they dont = monsters all the time. Do you just re-raise? Especially when you just check out of position...You cant just fold.

[kiddcheckers]

raise.

[Speel Posher]

very rarely i fold. most of the time i re raise and then take a stab at the turn. depending on the player and how loose he is, i might fire river if i think he was still on a draw. if he calls me down with a small pair i try to tighten up because i know he is going to call me down light.

[nearlyalex]

you could try floating or if he will min bet the flop and turn check raise on the turn.

[Elliterate]

if you're getting correct odds to draw then call.
If not fold. Also include implied odds. Raise if you think there is a good chance he will fold. Get player reads in this situation.

[6471849653]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you guys handle the min bets? What do they mean? I know, by goin to showdown, they dont = monsters all the time. Do you just re-raise? Especially when you just check out of position...You cant just fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's easier to put an opponent on a style playing limit, but if one has a general line of that opponent, e.g. one sees how he plays, then look from the memory (that type of players, that place, limit), figuring out what his minimum bet means. It means a lot of different things. Including the flop type and the situation.

Based on that read, one should already know what line is the best. The options are all the possible, e.g. one can look at the odds and act accordingly.

One computes his likely actions on the turn and the river and compares that (when one just calls on the flop - or folds on the flop) to making a move on the flop (if he is not usually strong). He might bet small on the flop and then bigger on the turn or the river and what that means, I don't know till I get a better line of how that player plays.

His turn bet might mean anything while the bigger river bet might mean that he improved, what looks maybe like a two pair to me - isn't it that often when one does the right calls along the way, the opponent improves, and if he doesn't, he is happy to check it down if he expects to win some of the time at least. If he has nothing to start with, why didn't he try to bluff it on the flop, betting a bit more at least? And why is he still betting about small on the turn if he has nothing? It looks more like he has something he wants to both protect and get value from, and it could be like a weaker top pair, a middle pair, while the turn bet may look already like a no-bottom pair except if he uses his position to check it down on the river and doesn't put you on a better hand on the turn. There's a chance to steal the pot in that case but one should be at least 40% (your raise gets those pot odds that he is instantly folding) or so sure about it and not be against someone who can't fold a weak hand. Vs. fish one should not do those big bluffs at all as they might call or/and have anything.

When making a move on the flop or later as the first or the second, it helps that the opponent bets small as one risks less then. One could raise on the flop with like two overcards (preferably with an ace), like "completing" his bet (pot size bet), or as Brunson says on his book that when he sees such a small bet (and thinks it's weak), he will call with little (or even with nothing) and come out (donk) betting a "large" bet on the turn (against a tight player). That's of course no good if the opponent tends to be strong then; a fish might be strong then, and a highly aggressive player may be strong then (as he might be when he checks when you would expect a bet). If the opponent is constantly betting small, then it's like limit holdem as far as the bet on the flop goes.

When one has the position and the opponent comes out betting small as a donk bet or not (you raised or didn't raise preflop), its meaning also depends. But there's nothing to worry about it as basically one can ignore it and continue like there has been no bet, but when there is a (donk) bet, one gets extra information and should like it (of course one also gets information when one bets - there was no donk bet - and one gets called or (check-)raised).

If it's a multiway pot and there is a small lead bet and you "raise" and he comes over the top, it looks like a big hand (a set perhaps) or a draw, and one has to figure that out but on average one is either a big dog or a smaller favorite. For that reason, if one smells it, one either just calls to see what happens (he gets a cheap card) or raises (maybe a smaller amount, maybe not - there are the other players too to consider if they haven't folded yet, and that is again one more factor) and gets out of the hand if he reraises (one doesn't expect him to do that with a draw as often or one would not have raised on the flop. The details go something like: If he bets bigger on the turn, if one just called on the flop, one has no escape but one still must make a tough call or a fold - if he can as likely have a draw too on the turn, that's the spot to call or raise rather than the flop now that the possible draw(s) have missed. And if the draw(s) get there it should be enough and one folds against a bigger bet. One needs to look for the flop type and do some math too).

[mvdgaag]

I like to treat them as a check without a strong read. Call when you normally would have checked and raise to the amount you would have bet if this actually was a check instead of a minbet.
This way you don't give any information with your reaction and the costs are often too small to really matter. Your opponent on the other hand often gives a lot of information making this play. The trick is to find out what it means for this particular opponent, because it could be anything from a blocking bet, a standard bet for value, a small value bet with the nuts that doesn't want you to fold or a 'feelerbet'... I like to play a lot of drawing hands against these players, because they often allow you to draw cheaply.

GL

[shooter69]

[ QUOTE ]
I like to treat them as a check without a strong read. Call when you normally would have checked and raise to the amount you would have bet if this actually was a check instead of a minbet.
This way you don't give any information with your reaction and the costs are often too small to really matter. Your opponent on the other hand often gives a lot of information making this play. The trick is to find out what it means for this particular opponent, because it could be anything from a blocking bet, a standard bet for value, a small value bet with the nuts that doesn't want you to fold or a 'feelerbet'... I like to play a lot of drawing hands against these players, because they often allow you to draw cheaply.

GL

[/ QUOTE ]
I handle it the same way you do. Most of the time they want to steal the pot easy without danger. Perhaps they try it with the "post-oak bluff" from doyle brunson.

[gbporkpie]

You really can't go too wrong treating every minbet as a check, except maybe in the smallest of pots. They should never "slow you down".

There's more potential there for abusing though. People who minbet basically have two different type of checks that mean different things. Where I play, when a micro-donkey minbets, it usually means "let's take a card off cheap", "let's get a cheap showdown", "don't raise". Sometimes it can be a draw (usually a weak draw) but usually it's a weak a pair less than the top pair. Sometimes it can even be the top pair with a weak kicker on a dangerous board.

It can indeed sometimes (rarely) also be a monster. Be very careful when someone minbets and then when you raise, comes right back with a reraise. He's likely very happy with his holdings.